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Question Jade

8 years 6 months ago #2 by Dreamer

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Jade wouldn't be interested in those yet, she still has the mindset of an 11 year old due to her stuck BIT. At least the way she acts in all the stories suggest she has the mindset of an 11 year old and all details point towards a stuck BIT.

Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked.

Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.

8 years 6 months ago #3 by Phoenix Spiritus

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Of course Jade would be interested in them, they are Hello Kitty and just the right size to hold in your hand, and just tnink of all the weapons you could hid in them!

Now, the faces of the more experienced girls like Bugs the first time she shows off her new Hello Kitty Arsenal and a huge blade comes rocketing out the end, that would be priceless.

8 years 6 months ago #4 by Dreamer

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Phoenix Spiritus wrote: Of course Jade would be interested in them, they are Hello Kitty and just the right size to hold in your hand, and just tnink of all the weapons you could hid in them!

Now, the faces of the more experienced girls like Bugs the first time she shows off her new Hello Kitty Arsenal and a huge blade comes rocketing out the end, that would be priceless.

Nope, wouldn't happen. Second she brought it down to the workshop to modify it the teacher would see it and confiscate it. And use vague explanations as for why, like "It's for your own good." or "Because it's inappropriate, no I won't explain why." Only way it would work out is if she borrowed Bunny's tools to modify it herself and didn't show it to anyone until she wants to show it off.

Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked.

Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.

8 years 6 months ago #5 by Phoenix Spiritus

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"Harry, do you mind if I borrow some of your tools?"

Looking up Techwolf smiled, Jade was at the door of his lab giving him puppy dog eyes again.

"Sure Generator, use whatever you like, just not the stuff on this bench here."

Smiling Jade danced in, making her way to Harry's meticulously laid out tool wall, reaching up carefully she took down a few tools, before turning back to Harry. "Ah, Harry, is there somewhere I can work here?" she begged.

Pointing to a bench Techwolf smiled. "Sure, I wasn't planning to use that bench until tomorrow, if you can have it free by then I don't mind you using it."

"Really?" Smile as big as her face had rushed over to Harry and hugged him. "Thankyou!"

Hugging her back, Harry inquired. "What are you working on?"

"This!" Jade declaired holding out an object that caused Techwolf to stare, and the start blushing.

"Do you know what that is?" He gasped

"Uh huh. It's a Hello Kitty vibrator, Fey called vibrators 'magic wands' and I found a Hello Kitty one and ordered it, isn't it great?"

Voice strained, almost horse Techwolf croaked out. "Jade! What are you going to do with it?"

"Upgrade it!" Jade cried out, as Harry just goggled at her, eyes and mouth wide in disbelief. "I'm gonna add a glitter canon to it, and a laser pointer, and some LEDs and everything, even a missle silo. Oh Harry? Do you have any spare steel I could use?"

"Steel? What for?"

"I what to make a blade for it, with a rel are button on the handle here, and when I press it schwick! Instant knife!"

Pale, slightly green and with his legs crossed Harry stared at Jade.

"What about the vibrating motors?" Harry finally managed to gasp.

Jade gave him a puzzled look. "You know? I still haven't worked out why it has them. When I hold it in my hand and wave it like a wand, all they do is make it jump all over the place and make me drop them, what are the for Harry?"

Turning even paler Harry stammered. "You'll have to ask one of your girlfriends that Jade, I ahh, just need to leave, I, ah, need to check something in another lab." Almost running Techwolf raced from the room, face bright red and eyes watering.

8 years 6 months ago #6 by Dawnfyre

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lmao

Stupidity is a capitol offense, a summary not indictable one.

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8 years 6 months ago #7 by E M Pisek

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Missed the part where Harry backs away slowly with his hands precariously covering, in what he hopes in not truly noticeable, the front of his pants.

What is - was. What was - is.

8 years 6 months ago #8 by konzill

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I really hope someone picks up Jade and we see more stories from her POV. There's just so many unfinished story threads there.

8 years 6 months ago #9 by Phoenix Spiritus

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So, they were talking about if Jade or Jinn was immune to siren's voicing, and I couldn't help think of the following case of cognitive dissonance to give to Jade,

"Jade, you no longer like Hello Kitty"

Would her mind spit in two? Would the new Jade destroy the world? Could Team Kimba overcome their fear, their hate their loathing long enough to return to Jade Hello Kitty?

8 years 6 months ago #10 by Sir Lee

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I don't think a siren's power is supposed to have long-term, lasting effects. Eventually the victim
"wakes up" from it. Also, we haven't seen Vox exert any sort of personality change in other people; she gave them specific orders to perform specific acts.

This would seem to be me arguing that Vox wouldn't be able to voice herself (or rather, have her command to Jadis reflect back on her due to Jadis's mystic defenses) to dislike Ayla... HOWEVER, I think that in this particular case it would work:
1. Vox apparently did give a specific order to Jadis: "leave Ayla alone" or words to that effect. That wouldn't keep Vox from being attracted to Ayla, but would make her avoid Ayla.
2. Since she can't "get away" from the source of the psychic command (which is herself), her power could keep "recharging" the command.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

8 years 6 months ago #11 by E M Pisek

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Sir Lee wrote: I don't think a siren's power is supposed to have long-term, lasting effects. Eventually the victim
"wakes up" from it. Also, we haven't seen Vox exert any sort of personality change in other people; she gave them specific orders to perform specific acts.

This would seem to be me arguing that Vox wouldn't be able to voice herself (or rather, have her command to Jadis reflect back on her due to Jadis's mystic defenses) to dislike Ayla... HOWEVER, I think that in this particular case it would work:
1. Vox apparently did give a specific order to Jadis: "leave Ayla alone" or words to that effect. That wouldn't keep Vox from being attracted to Ayla, but would make her avoid Ayla.
2. Since she can't "get away" from the source of the psychic command (which is herself), her power could keep "recharging" the command.

In part an endless loop. Once the spell begins to wear off, a subconscious part reinforces the spells effect thus making it effective once more, only to repeat the process over and over again. If she was not aware of the command she would not have knowledge of its effect an so she comes to think that its something else that is hindering her to wanting to talk to Ayla. If she were made aware of the command, she could 'theoretically' command herself to ignore the other spell thus breaking the cycle. But that is only if others knew it was her that spelled herself.

What is - was. What was - is.

8 years 6 months ago - 8 years 6 months ago #12 by Phoenix Spiritus

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I couldn't help myself.

Vox voices Jade Micro-Scene (for those that haven't seen it)

Last Edit: 8 years 6 months ago by Phoenix Spiritus.

8 years 4 months ago #13 by Ginncaster5

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I thought Sirens were immune to their own power?

Anyways, can someone please pick up Jade? As a story, I mean; do any of the non-Babs authors know what was planned for her and by when the reveals were supposed to be made? So many authors seem to have jumped ship that we really need someone or several someones to pull double duty on characters so we can get the stories filled out more.

8 years 4 months ago #14 by Domoviye

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I understand that at least one canon writer possibly two, wants to start using Jade more. Similar to how Elrod is using Ayla, that's about the best that's going to happen.

8 years 4 months ago #15 by Phoenix Spiritus

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Kristin has promised a Jade Combat Final!

8 years 4 months ago #16 by Bek D Corbin

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There are two very good reasons why we haven't done anything with Jade:

First, she's Babs' character. Until we hear that Babs has formally quit, given up writing Jade, or died, we can't really do anything with her. And, Yes, we Canon authors find that just as annoying as you do.

Second, it would be a stone GRIZZLY to find anyone who could do Jade justice.

8 years 4 months ago #17 by Ginncaster5

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Well, there should probably be some sort of time limit on it if you try contacting Babs and she keeps not answering, unless someone here knows her personally to check if she died or is in hospital or something. Probably best if someone knows her personally.

And yeah, only Babs can probably do Jade right, but if she's supposed to hit certain milestones in certain semesters, somebody's going to have to make do at some point.

8 years 4 months ago #18 by E M Pisek

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That would be like any author just deciding to take up writing Sherlock Holmes after his author died. He was still owned by the estate and as much as many people would like to, what if after hearing nothing the author decides to come back after substantial changes have been made. Yes I know other authors did, but I'm sure only after the estate allowed it..

Or what if the author replied after someone did take up the mantel after not hearing for sure about the authors status. Then what.

Its a fine line to travel and the best course is I'm afraid to do nothing unless otherwise. We'd know for sure after 50 more years. You just can't decide to do it because you want it without knowing for sure.

What is - was. What was - is.

8 years 4 months ago #19 by Ginncaster5

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The best situation would be if someone here knows her personally and gets her permission to at least write about Jade doing whatever was originally planned for her.

Though, wasn't there at least one story about Jade not written by Babs or was that something else? I seem to remember something in the comments way back when about Jade becoming crazier than Babs would have wanted or something.

8 years 4 months ago #20 by Valentine

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Ginncaster5 wrote: Well, there should probably be some sort of time limit on it if you try contacting Babs and she keeps not answering, unless someone here knows her personally to check if she died or is in hospital or something. Probably best if someone knows her personally.

And yeah, only Babs can probably do Jade right, but if she's supposed to hit certain milestones in certain semesters, somebody's going to have to make do at some point.

If they had set this up beforehand then it would be fine, and if the 2nd Gen sets it up, then great, but you can't retroactively do it.

Don't Drick and Drive.

8 years 4 months ago #21 by Ginncaster5

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I thought Bek knew her or something. Or was that another AWOL author?

8 years 4 months ago #22 by DanZilla

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Ginncaster5 wrote: Though, wasn't there at least one story about Jade not written by Babs or was that something else? I seem to remember something in the comments way back when about Jade becoming crazier than Babs would have wanted or something.

This is something I've noticed in some of my re-reading of stories... some of the other authors, who had used Jade in their stories, tend to play up the wacky and crazy little kid aspects whereas she always struck me as more mature and only occasionally making crazier actions in her original stories.

As for the issue of whether other authors should be allowed to take over an authors character, and I realize anything we talk about here is just our 2-cents worth which may not (and probably won't) affect anyone else's official opinions on the matter.

*** And, this is just my opinion and formed wholly in my head and not through any associations or conversations I've had with anyone on this subject no matter how pretty and official I try to make it sound ***

I can understand an authors/owners rights, to a character, under normal uses ...where they and those they've contracted with can dictate what uses can be taken with a character.

Where I think the Whateley "group" (for lack of a better term) needs to concentrate when they consider an "inheritance" of a character is that it's a shared universe for them to work in... when a character was submitted for publication it became not the property of the author/owner but that of the Whateley "group" or should have.

This is not to say that the Group can take away a character from an active author but I do believe they should act in the character, universe and Canon storyline's health and best interests to use "fallow" character(s) whose Author(s) has/have been uncommunicative with the group for an extended period of time or has/have willfully decided not to write a character for other reasons.

*** Again, this is just my opinion and formed wholly in my head and not through any associations or conversations I've had with anyone on this subject no matter how pretty and official I try to make it sound ***

8 years 4 months ago #23 by konzill

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Ib12us wrote: That would be like any author just deciding to take up writing Sherlock Holmes after his author died.

The complicating factor here is that this is a shared universe. And Jade has apepared in stories written by other founding authors. IANAL but doesn't that mean that they already have permission to write stories about Jade? Arguably the universe is collectivly owned by the canon authors, Also as far as I understand it no one is actually making any money of these stories either.

Though yes hashing this out before hand and agreeing on how work is licensed is a good Idea, I hope the more recent authors have done this. Otherwise Whateley is doomed to perpetually have characters disapear with their story arcs unresolved.

8 years 4 months ago - 8 years 4 months ago #24 by Phoenix Spiritus

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Not a lawyer or anything, but a group of authors got together and made a shared univers and started writing a group of characters.

They shared the universe, but very significantly kept copyright of their own stories.

They (the original group of Authors) may have some sort of combined ownership of their characters, but that is not the same as some other group of Authors now steering the Whateley Universe has ownership of the characters or the work on stories that original group started to write.

If it was all the other original writers working out what to do, that's one thing, but in all honesty, nearly all that group has left or is at best comatosed inactive. There is a reason the current crop of Authors are trying to clean break from Team Kimba with Gen 2, and it's not because they don't love the characters.

Last Edit: 8 years 4 months ago by Phoenix Spiritus.

8 years 4 months ago #25 by annachie

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Every so often I do a hunt.
There's been no internet activity for Babs for years.

8 years 4 months ago #26 by Kristin Darken

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konzill wrote:
Ib12us wrote: That would be like any author just deciding to take up writing Sherlock Holmes after his author died.

The complicating factor here is that this is a shared universe. And Jade has apepared in stories written by other founding authors. IANAL but doesn't that mean that they already have permission to write stories about Jade? Arguably the universe is collectivly owned by the canon authors, Also as far as I understand it no one is actually making any money of these stories either.

Though yes hashing this out before hand and agreeing on how work is licensed is a good Idea, I hope the more recent authors have done this. Otherwise Whateley is doomed to perpetually have characters disapear with their story arcs unresolved.

Yes, we have taken this into consideration with the development of the Gen 2 author team and will do so with future additions we make to write write in the original timeline or as part of any other group we develop in the future. 'Should' we have done so early on? Well... ya... but honestly? No one involved ever thought things were going to turn out how they did... and it doesn't really matter 'why' we didn't. The fact is, we didn't. And we have to cope with that and we have to respect the IP of those authors even if it is a shared universe. We'll try to include characters like Jade in group stories and in non-critical stuff (like combat finals and vignettes) when someone feels they can pull off the right voice... but that's entirely different from having someone adopt the character as a full time PoV character or making any effort to advance that character's personal plotline directly. And if that sounds vague... it is. We have no one specific policy and we haven't cracked open the law books to see what precedents there are... we just sort of play it by ear and treat our lost authors the way we would want to be treated and hope it works out.

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8 years 4 months ago #27 by elrodw

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To elaborate on what Kristin wrote, we explicitly made a condition of Gen 2 authorship that if an author was not writing a character, one of the Gen 2 team (and that wasn't specific to only certain Gen 2 team members, or team members at the time of the writing) could take up POV stories for that character.

Before she disappeared completely, I got permission from Diane to do Wine, Women, and Ayla. Further permissions won't be forthcoming as she hasn't answered e-mail for over a year, but as Ayla is a prominent character in Charge's life, Ayla will be seen more - only not a full Ayla POV story.

Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert

8 years 4 months ago #28 by Phoenix Spiritus

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Curiosity, what is the consensus with regard to POV stories for Hank?

8 years 4 months ago #29 by Sir Lee

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From what I remember, Hank never had an "owner" -- basically, he was included because every one of the original canon authors wanted to write a M2F character but they felt that it would be odd if there were no F2M at all.

When E.E.Nalley started writing Wallflower, there was some expectation that he would "take over" Hank's development even if indirectly, as Wallflower's boyfriend. That didn't actually happen, though.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

8 years 4 months ago #30 by Ginncaster5

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annachie wrote: Every so often I do a hunt.
There's been no internet activity for Babs for years.

Wow. Are we sure she's even alive? What's the rule of how many years can go by before someone is 'presumed dead'? Don't we have an AWOL author in the military or something that we haven't heard of and people assumed the worst? And come on, there must have been some sort of general storyline planned for Jade; it would involve and influence the other characters, especially Tennyo, who I assume is up for grabs since Starwolf basically quit.

8 years 4 months ago #31 by Valentine

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Phoenix Spiritus wrote: Curiosity, what is the consensus with regard to POV stories for Hank?

I think that you have done a fine job in writing from Hank's POV, and hope you keep doing so, even if they are just Fan-Fic stories.

Don't Drick and Drive.

8 years 4 months ago #32 by Domoviye

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Phoenix Spiritus wrote: Curiosity, what is the consensus with regard to POV stories for Hank?

You already know what I think, and I'll reiterate how helpful it was reading one of the microfictions for a project I'm working on.

8 years 4 months ago #33 by rubberjohn

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Purely out of curiosity, given that we are on the subject of missing authors and the take over of orphaned characters, how did it come about that Diane took over Ayla. She's the only character that I can recall, off the top of my head, where the character was started by one author then taken over, very successfully I might add, by another.

I seem to remember it was explained once before but, as usual, I can't remember the details.

John.

8 years 4 months ago #34 by Domoviye

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Thaty was because the person who came up with Ayla dropped out without writing anything. So it wouldn't be jarring or really stealing a set character from a writer.

8 years 4 months ago #35 by Dawnfyre

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Bek, I site mailed you my response to that GRIZZLY comment.

Stupidity is a capitol offense, a summary not indictable one.

8 years 4 months ago #36 by Sir Lee

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I think that in Ayla's case they had permission to find another author. Also, most of what had been written about Ayla (by ScramblerJ, that is) up to then was backstory not seen outside of the TINCC, so there was a lot more leeway for a new author -- Diana pretty much created her own version of Ayla, instead of following up on ScramblerJ's version. For instance, I remember Diane commenting that in the original version Grace not only played in Brass Monkey, but also was responsible for feminizing Ayla.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

8 years 3 months ago #37 by jmhyp

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The death of one of the authors, aside from being terrible, would start the clock on when the character gets out of copyright. Just wait 95 years (in the US anyway). No problem.

Someone was pointing out Jade seems wackier in other stories. That's because of POV. People focus on Jade only when she's wacky so only the wacky stuff is reported and the reporting emphasizes the wacki-tude.

8 years 3 months ago #38 by Valentine

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jmhyp wrote: The death of one of the authors, aside from being terrible, would start the clock on when the character gets out of copyright. Just wait 95 years (in the US anyway). No problem.

Someone was pointing out Jade seems wackier in other stories. That's because of POV. People focus on Jade only when she's wacky so only the wacky stuff is reported and the reporting emphasizes the wacki-tude.

Don't worry, Disney will get that extension pushed through soon.

Don't Drick and Drive.

8 years 3 months ago #39 by jmhyp

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That's due in 2017. 2018 at the latest.

8 years 3 months ago #40 by konzill

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A few countries have orphan works provisions these days. Unfortunatly the USA is not currently one of them, attempts to do this in 2006 & 2008 didn't get passed into legislation. And I'm asusming that Whateley was primarily published in the USA.

8 years 3 months ago #41 by Sir Lee

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When you are talking about Web publishing, "place of publication" is a thorny issue. If the author resides in one country, the party who owns the domain name is in a second country and the actual site is hosted in a multi-datacenter, international service such as Google or Amazon Web Services... which country are we talking about?

But in reality, place of ORIGINAL publication *does not matter* for copyright. Even publishing the work isn't relevant. What's relevant is that it's "put on paper" so to speak (or an electronic equivalent thereof), that is, you give your ideas an actual form.

The problem with jurisdiction arises with each particular publication, viz: whoever is publishing the work has to actually have the right to publish it under its jurisdiction. This often arises with works that are near the end of their copyright term -- due to variations in national law, a work can be in public domain (expired copyright) in one jurisdiction and still under copyright in a different one.

To expand it a bit... postulating that the "orphan work" provision applies here, they would only apply inside the particular jurisdiction. So, if Lower Slobbovia has an orphan works law that puts Liliandra's works into public domain, it means that Slobbovian people can proceed treating it as PD -- but in other countries Liliandra's copyright is still valid.

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8 years 3 months ago #42 by DanZilla

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it gets more hazy when you take into account that much web fiction is posted Anonymous or semi-anonymously and verification of identity can never really be completely possible. Let alone where that identity can be said to live.

As more and more fiction, videos and software are published online and possible questions of copyright come up it becomes more and more clear just how unclear it is just when questions of ownership are covered by laws meant for goods in the the "real" world...

Take for example Abandonware... the united states put in an exemption to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act to allow for legal bypass of copy protection for software determined to be abandoned.

8 years 3 months ago #43 by Ginncaster5

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How long does it generally take in the States at least for a missing person to be 'presumed dead' and wills and things take effect?

Also, if anyone knows Babs well enough to know if she would even care at this point, even if she was dead, that someone just took over for the good of the whole Universe? Now would be a good time to speak up. Otherwise, this is going to get complicated.

8 years 3 months ago #44 by Kristin Darken

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It doesn't matter either way. There is no orphan law as it applies to this case.. and no one is going to 'steal' Babs' character even if some legalese makes it quasi-ok.

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.

8 years 3 months ago #45 by Ginncaster5

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Heh, at this rate, someone should hire a PI or something to track her down and ask her! Though considering the shared universe thing and webserial status, I doubt she'd be too opposed to someone picking up the character and following her milestones for Jade if she died, but I don't know her, and I guess she might.

As my username might hint at, Jade is the reason I really got into Whateley, and I'd be disappointed if she didn't get developed anymore. But such is life, I suppose.

Then again, if she won't get developed, that means she won't find out what's wrong with her, which means you might as well tell us what it is, since it's no longer a future plot point.

8 years 3 months ago #46 by Valentine

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Ginncaster5 wrote: Heh, at this rate, someone should hire a PI or something to track her down and ask her! Though considering the shared universe thing and webserial status, I doubt she'd be too opposed to someone picking up the character and following her milestones for Jade if she died, but I don't know her, and I guess she might.

As my username might hint at, Jade is the reason I really got into Whateley, and I'd be disappointed if she didn't get developed anymore. But such is life, I suppose.

Then again, if she won't get developed, that means she won't find out what's wrong with her, which means you might as well tell us what it is, since it's no longer a future plot point.

She's going to be disappointed if she doesn't get any more development too.

Don't Drick and Drive.

8 years 3 months ago #47 by Horrid

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TY, konzill! Your comment was SO something that very much needed to be said

Please, canon cabalists, find a super great author who loves Whateley, loves Team Kimba, and loves Jade so her story can continue.

Even if Kodiak etc. finish the Bastard storyline I for one would very much appreciate getting some more stories about the Team Kimba characters and especially our dear little Jade.

It isn't a good feeling, putting something else on your plate when I know you are all very busy. So don't think of this as a demand, just an expression of appreciation of what has gone before and a desire for more of the same someday.

8 years 3 months ago #48 by Domoviye

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I'm sure we'll hear what happens through other characters, it just won't be her POV. Not as satisfying but better than nothing.

8 years 3 months ago #49 by Ginncaster5

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We better!

You know, I think Jade's stories were the ones that played the most part in my getting over my trans-phobia because of the way the perspective of a trans person was portrayed so well, even better than the other lot, at least for me personally. She's the character I feel the most sympathy for, Ayla being the next most.

So yeah, I'd really love to see her story resolved nicely, especially since it seems way more likely to happen for Jade than for Ayla.

8 years 3 months ago - 8 years 3 months ago #50 by Sir Lee

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Bringing the discussion regarding the limitations of Jade/Jinn/J-team's TK here...

Yeah, Jade is a powerful telekinetic (albeit with the unusual limitation of having to touch the object first). Would it be possible to design some sort of TK-proof handcuff that she couldn't open?

I think so. I can think of at least three approaches:
1. Disposable handcuffs that are strongly glued/welded closed, requiring it to be sawn/broken to open it. Simple and hard to get around.
2. Cuffs held closed by a strong eletromagnectic field, using pure electronics with no moving parts for the control circuit. Some care in the design would be required to make all components resistant to TK tampering (for instance, sealing all components in epoxy so that Jinn couldn't just pull off a lead).
3. Design the cuff in a way that *the lock itself* is part of an electrical circuit -- if a TK attempts to open it, the circuit opens/closes, doing something unpleasant (electrical shock at the lower levels, explosives at the higher level) to dissuade the TK-user from messing with the lock. Like the previous one, some care would have to be taken to make the rest of the circuit tamper-proof.

Of course, as has been pointed out, it all hinges on whoever is cuffing Jade to know that she is a high-dexterity PK and choose an appropriate set of restraints.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

Last Edit: 8 years 3 months ago by Sir Lee.

8 years 3 months ago #51 by Jarjaross

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jmhyp wrote: Well excuse me for not memorizing the WIKI where, on the Telekinesis page, the word DEXTERITY appears once: as the label on a chart.

No holds barred, I put my money on Jade over just about anybody short of Tennyo. And even there, if Tennyo didn't literally own Jade, Jade might even defeat Tennyo.

And this isn't fanboy nonsense. Jade is my least favorite Kimba. But the way she was portrayed in various stories tells me she is a force to be reckoned with at the A-list levels.

(And Tennyo is back in the discussion.)

Really…
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I mainly can't stand the other Kimbas, barring Ayla and Tennyo, Jade is my favorite by miles.

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8 years 3 months ago #52 by Mister D

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I loved Jade's combat final.

It would be good to read the story from her perspective.

Or from Mule's....

Measure Twice

8 years 3 months ago #53 by jmhyp

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Jarjaross wrote:
jmhyp wrote: And this isn't fanboy nonsense. Jade is my least favorite Kimba. But the way she was portrayed in various stories tells me she is a force to be reckoned with at the A-list levels.

Really…
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I mainly can't stand the other Kimbas, barring Ayla and Tennyo, Jade is my favorite by miles.

Well, since this is a Jade thread... Yeah, reading the Jade stories a second time was hard. She pushes my buttons in the "why isn't this character in a rubber room?" way. The idea she can register her dead sister as a student is mind boggling. Sure, Ito knows better. But is living as Jinn (as much as she does) healthy for Jade? All it seems to do is ramp up her self-destructive zeal to be a woman. She is dangerously overdriven and singly-focused. And then there are the times when she is just plain nuts. (And her job has put in places where she's had to deal with Class-X level stuff. So maybe she just is unhinged.)

Perhaps I just don't understand TG as much as I think I do but she's seems like an extreme, caricature of the TG condition. And watching the (in my eyes) caricature bugs me. Yes, she's a well-crafted, complex character so if she isn't a caricature, then it is on cis-y (pun not intended) old me for being uninformed. Ayla and Chou (the others unhappy with their gender/body states) don't cross the lines Jade does.

All, of course, IMHO. YMMV.

8 years 3 months ago #54 by Jarjaross

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jmhyp wrote:
Jarjaross wrote:
jmhyp wrote: And this isn't fanboy nonsense. Jade is my least favorite Kimba. But the way she was portrayed in various stories tells me she is a force to be reckoned with at the A-list levels.

Really…
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I mainly can't stand the other Kimbas, barring Ayla and Tennyo, Jade is my favorite by miles.
Well, since this is a Jade thread... Yeah, reading the Jade stories a second time was hard. She pushes my buttons in the "why isn't this character in a rubber room?" way. The idea she can register her dead sister as a student is mind boggling. Sure, Ito knows better. But is living as Jinn (as much as she does) healthy for Jade? All it seems to do is ramp up her self-destructive zeal to be a woman. She is dangerously overdriven and singly-focused. And then there are the times when she is just plain nuts. (And her job has put in places where she's had to deal with Class-X level stuff. So maybe she just is unhinged.)

Perhaps I just don't understand TG as much as I think I do but she's seems like an extreme, caricature of the TG condition. And watching the (in my eyes) caricature bugs me. Yes, she's a well-crafted, complex character so if she isn't a caricature, then it is on cis-y (pun not intended) old me for being uninformed. Ayla and Chou (the others unhappy with their gender/body states) don't cross the lines Jade does.

All, of course, IMHO. YMMV.

Actually I relate to Jade a lot on basically everything other than the TG stuff. Also she should not be in a rubber room. I may have casually mention that I have multiple mental disorders yet can function perfectly well in society. Watch Jade is nice because she is the crazy outsider that I was in grade school. Heck she even has my 2 favorite survival mechanisms down, if you are crazy the norms leave you alone, and 2 the ability to act. When reading her I don't see a caricature of something I can't myself totally relate to, I see a person dealing with a society that is built to screw with them.

8 years 3 months ago #55 by jmhyp

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None of the rest of her baggage has analogs in my life. She is nearly alien to me in that regard. But I've known people who've had similar issues so I can relate. But someone who will self-inflict wounds, needs serious help that she frankly does not get. She goes to Dr. Bellows only for trying to help her BIT issues. There's no Jade POV where he asks her about coping with being TG, neither before or after her self-mutilation. The handling of Jade by the school after that episode is odd (and might be an artifact of it being her POVs that we see it through). Her stories just bug me.

8 years 3 months ago #56 by Cryptic

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I was a bit shocked when I picked up the Marvel Encyclopedia by DK and found that Shroud was actually listed in it!

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8 years 3 months ago #57 by annachie

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I'm trying to remember if the syndicate ever put a price on her head.

8 years 3 months ago #58 by konzill

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annachie wrote: I'm trying to remember if the syndicate ever put a price on her head.

Wouldn't that break the Whateley neutrality agreement? I'm fairly sure that the Syndicate won't officially target a Whateley Student.

8 years 3 months ago #59 by amratner

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There is no mention of a price on her head anywhere. The syndicate was discussing having her killed with the Necromancer, but as of the birthday brawl no agreement had been set.

8 years 3 months ago #60 by annachie

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amratner wrote: There is no mention of a price on her head anywhere. The syndicate was discussing having her killed with the Necromancer, but as of the birthday brawl no agreement had been set.

Yeah, that's the conversation/scene I'm trying to remember.

8 years 3 months ago #61 by rubberjohn

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konzill wrote:
annachie wrote: I'm trying to remember if the syndicate ever put a price on her head.

Wouldn't that break the Whateley neutrality agreement? I'm fairly sure that the Syndicate won't officially target a Whateley Student.

Um... Are you sure of that? Think what happened at Halloween.

John.

8 years 3 months ago #62 by annachie

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No, nothing to do with the syndicate, no nothing at all.

They had so little to do with it they even went and put a bounty on Deathwish's head just to make sure that nobody thought that they had anything to do with it, no sir no way no how ....

8 years 3 months ago #63 by konzill

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rubberjohn wrote:
konzill wrote:
annachie wrote: I'm trying to remember if the syndicate ever put a price on her head.

Wouldn't that break the Whateley neutrality agreement? I'm fairly sure that the Syndicate won't officially target a Whateley Student.

Um... Are you sure of that? Think what happened at Halloween.

John.

Yes and as a result the Syndicate put a $10Million dollar bounty on Chessmaster's head for breaking the neutrality agreement.

8 years 3 months ago #64 by Arcanist Lupus

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Unrelated to anything being discussed above, I feel that this comic could apply to Jade just as well as it does to Para.

(The difference is that Para force multiplies using robots, and Jade just pretends to use robots)

"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson

8 years 3 months ago #65 by lighttech

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Jade's new armor?

geyserofawesome.com/post/120559994172/fr...n-evangelion-to-iron

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8 years 3 months ago #66 by Dreamer

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lighttech wrote: Jade's new armor?

geyserofawesome.com/post/120559994172/fr...n-evangelion-to-iron

That would give any opponents who face her in the sims nightmares! Along with some of her teammates. *shudders* If was an enemy soldier and saw that flying towards me, I would be more inclined to run than from the normal Iron Man armor. "Wait, it is a cross between Iron Man armor and Hello Kitty? Get the hell out of there, you know the more cute a weapon is, the more dangerous it has to be!"

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8 years 3 months ago #67 by Cryptic

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Huh. I think the producers of Sups V Bat saw the design for the Iron Bat and snagged it for the movie. Love the Alien one...

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8 years 3 months ago - 8 years 3 months ago #68 by Kettlekorn

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Eh. A suit of power armor wearing the rubber horse head in that site's ad would freak me out way more than one decorated in Hello Kitty. In fact, when it comes to the specific Iron Man suit that was linked, the Hello Kitty paint job it sports would actually encourage me to fight it and to fight hard because it reminds me of Dolores Umbridge . (It wouldn't trigger that association if it were Jade-sized though.)

Anyway. these aren't real , but I wish they were. I particularly like Hello Optimus and Hello Gundam.

I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.

Last Edit: 8 years 3 months ago by Kettlekorn.

8 years 1 month ago #69 by Valentine

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This showed up in the Mimeo thread,

annachie wrote: (Then again I do have pictures in my head of Jade getting her head ripped off, walking over to shove it back on then complaining about how difficult it is to get blood stains out of her costume)

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: Ohhh!

Halloween prank Jinn can play on people with a "Jade" skin pour and lots of fake blood!

Even better Jinn in a Jade skin pour, walking around carrying "her head" the with "blood" slowly dripping from the neck, the whole time talking and acting normal. Well, normal for them.

Don't Drick and Drive.

7 years 10 months ago #70 by Valentine

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So we know that Jade spends some time with Ayla, at least from July 1 to July 11. It is implied that she is going someplace other than where Ayla is going, because of

"You, too." I gave him another quick hug, then watched him and Jade walk away from Twinkletoes and me. We'd arrived in terminal 5, the international terminal, and Walt and I were flying to Sioux Falls from terminal 1, while Ayla and Jade had flights from terminal 3.

So it's possible that Jade spends June with Ayla, Gracie's house might be a bit crowded, but I'm sure they could figure something out for a month.

So where else does Jade spend her summer?
With Billie? That seems to be cursed.
With Nikki? I don't think Nikki's mom would appreciate that. Although given that she saved Nikki, there are mitigating circumstances.
With Toni? I think the Chandler's would be OK with that, until Jade blew up part of Baltimore. (Toni's Grammy mentoring Jade, scary.)
With Hank? Not likely, as I'm not sure where Hank is spending the summer.
Back at Whateley?
With Sun Wu? I hope not, the planet might not survive.
Can't be with Anna, as Anna doesn't know where she is spending her summer.
With Bunny? Las Vegas would go broke.
With Misty? Jade plus mountains equals bad. Too many volcanoes in Washington.
With Lindsey? Jade staying at the home of a Supervillain, could be interesting.
With Molly? Molly probably already has Chou staying over, at least part of the Summer.

Don't Drick and Drive.

7 years 8 months ago #71 by Malady

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WMG: Jade's stuck as a 11-yr-old boy due to burnout, possibly as a result of a Regen trait trying to heal mental trauma from her mom's death? The latter just sounds impossible... ... She wasn't in the car when her mom had her car crash, IIRC... ... Wonder how important Jade's mom is...

... In the Canon Bible, Jade does have a set 'cause for her condition? ... Then again, if not, it could just be "that's the way her mutation is."

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7 years 8 months ago #72 by Phoenix Spiritus

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Jade got regen from the bit slicer machine (and Billie), not as part of her mutation. So regen isn't the cause of her condition.

Also, its postulated that her "BIT" image is actually what her psychic projections "look" like (i.e Shroud's "Japanese Girl" look), so her "BIT" isn't what is causing her condition either.

WOG: Yes there is a canon reason for the condition.

7 years 8 months ago #73 by Kettlekorn

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Jade's mom is Nimbus, obviously.

I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.

7 years 8 months ago #74 by Valentine

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Kettlekorn wrote: Jade's mom is Nimbus, obviously.

That's silly Jade's mom is obviously Dr. Diabolik.

Don't Drick and Drive.

7 years 8 months ago #75 by Arcanist Lupus

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I thought G2 made it obvious - Jade's mom is The Mighty Squid!

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7 years 8 months ago #76 by Valentine

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Arcanist Lupus wrote: I thought G2 made it obvious - Jade's mom is The Mighty Squid!

Jade's mom was always competent, that eliminates The Mighty Squid.

Don't Drick and Drive.

7 years 8 months ago #77 by Jarjaross

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Valentine wrote: So we know that Jade spends some time with Ayla, at least from July 1 to July 11. It is implied that she is going someplace other than where Ayla is going, because of

"You, too." I gave him another quick hug, then watched him and Jade walk away from Twinkletoes and me. We'd arrived in terminal 5, the international terminal, and Walt and I were flying to Sioux Falls from terminal 1, while Ayla and Jade had flights from terminal 3.

So it's possible that Jade spends June with Ayla, Gracie's house might be a bit crowded, but I'm sure they could figure something out for a month.

So where else does Jade spend her summer?
With Billie? That seems to be cursed.
With Nikki? I don't think Nikki's mom would appreciate that. Although given that she saved Nikki, there are mitigating circumstances.
With Toni? I think the Chandler's would be OK with that, until Jade blew up part of Baltimore. (Toni's Grammy mentoring Jade, scary.)
With Hank? Not likely, as I'm not sure where Hank is spending the summer.
Back at Whateley?
With Sun Wu? I hope not, the planet might not survive.
Can't be with Anna, as Anna doesn't know where she is spending her summer.
With Bunny? Las Vegas would go broke.
With Misty? Jade plus mountains equals bad. Too many volcanoes in Washington.
With Lindsey? Jade staying at the home of a Supervillain, could be interesting.
With Molly? Molly probably already has Chou staying over, at least part of the Summer.

This is a really interesting question, personally I'm rooting for Lindsay but think it is unlikely. There are plenty of other 'orphans' (her father is dead to me) at Whateley so there must be a support system in place.

7 years 8 months ago #78 by Valentine

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Someone mentioned that there is a Summer Program at Whateley for those that can't leave, like Puppet and a few other Thornies, and that they didn't want to get stuck there. It might have been Anna. So there is a support system in place, even if it isn't fun. It's also possible that some of Workshop students stay to work on other projects, especially if they have Diedricks or are named Olympia.

Don't Drick and Drive.

7 years 4 months ago #79 by fturtle

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What I think you've forgoten is that Jade is a High level Regenerator - Means meds do nothing for her after a few uses. Since this is the case, although to norms and baselines, she'd appear to be crazy in regards to the self abuse, she's actually using the situation to develop survival methods in regards to pain. A solid example of how her response to pain helps is the "Christmas Elves" story when she's stabbed in the heart with Hekate's Anthame because with out the experience of high levels of pain, she wouldn't have been able to survive - giving up the ghost so to say.

After reading the "Tenyo goes to Hell" story - it's stated that Jade may actually be misclassified as a high level regen when in reality she's like "JimmyT" and is a shifter, which makes rereading "Christmas Elves" very interesting in regards to Jade's role in the story.

7 years 1 month ago #80 by JJFab

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Jade definitely got High Level Regen from Billy. It WAS however hypothesized that she was a shifter who got stuck when she had a burnout after manifesting Jinn for the first time.

All that being said... Is anyone going to pick up writing Jade? I am VERY happy to see her and the Kimbas being featured as the main characters of stories again as her Story Line is one of my favorites. I was super disappointed when the solo jade stories stopped happening.

7 years 1 month ago - 7 years 1 month ago #81 by Malady

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JJFab wrote: Jade definitely got High Level Regen from Billy. It WAS however hypothesized that she was a shifter who got stuck when she had a burnout after manifesting Jinn for the first time.

All that being said... Is anyone going to pick up writing Jade? I am VERY happy to see her and the Kimbas being featured as the main characters of stories again as her Story Line is one of my favorites. I was super disappointed when the solo jade stories stopped happening.

Congratulations on what appears to be your first post on this forum! ...

In response to your query, the basic idea is the only person who'll write Jade POV stories is Babs, and we don't know where she is, and other people aren't going to write Jade stories because Jade isn't their character.

Also possibly something about copyright and legalities, etc, which has been discussed before, somewhere, and with this, will probably be summarized again, by Kristin or someone who (remembers / can find) the fine details.

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Last Edit: 7 years 1 month ago by Malady.

7 years 1 month ago #82 by Yolandria

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Jade has made a few guest appearances in recent stories. But i have a feeling that's about as far as it will be. As much as everyone loves the zany shennanigans she pulls off i think were stuck with those for the time being.

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7 years 1 month ago #83 by elrodw

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I like having Jade's brand of insanity in stories, such as I featured her in Best Days (part 3). But I would never want to try to write a Jade POV story, just like I won't really write an Ayla POV story. (Any scenes with Ayla - like Best Days, Wine Women & Ayla, and more to come, are really an Addy POV) Writing someone else's characters is very difficult.

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7 years 1 month ago #84 by konzill

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Just an FYI Jade's shapeshifting potential is explored in the story Tenyo goes to Hell.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

, be warned this story goes places that you don't normally see in Whateley. Also note that even despite not having all her potential powers she is still the Kimba with the highest body count. Jade getting her full power in the baseline Whateley reality is guaranteed to result in somebody having a bad day.

7 years 1 month ago #85 by Arcanist Lupus

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Forgive me if I'm prying, but does the active Cabal know the full details of Jade's potential powerset?

I don't expect you to tell us, of course. I'm just curious about whether you could.

"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson

7 years 1 month ago #86 by Sir Lee

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On the bodycount...
Eh, that's arguable. Tennyo did kill a lot of people during her Christmas story. Nobody really counted how many, just "lots." Same for Jade in the Syndicate base.

Also, do Voodoo Wolves count? If so, each one of the Wild Bunch racked a significant kill count too.

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7 years 1 month ago #87 by elrodw

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Arcanist Lupus wrote: Forgive me if I'm prying, but does the active Cabal know the full details of Jade's potential powerset?

I don't expect you to tell us, of course. I'm just curious about whether you could.

Let me put it this way - we're probably about 95-98% certain of hitting her ultimate powerset on the head if we were to write Jade stories. At that confidence level, I think we know enough to use her as a non-POV character (e.g. Best Days part 3, All the King's Horses, Veni Vidi Cutie) pretty accurately. It's the private Jade that we might not quite get right - her inner demons, what motivates her, what she will or won't do to get her goals, what she fears - that stuff. I can't speak for the others, but in her POV, I would probably do inadequately with her unpredictable zany and UV types of reactions (e.g. if she had to confront bloodwolf again). From a different POV? I'd write that. I think we all could.

As an exercise for the students, I wouldn't mind if someone (or ones) were to do an analysis of what I wrote about Jade in the three stories - Best Days part 3, All the Kings Horses, and Veni Vidi Cutie - and do a compare/contrast to Babs' Jade-POV take, so that I could better understand where my characterization of her falls short and where it hits the mark. The more comfortable I am with Jade, the more I can include her as a side-character who occasionally wanders into the spotlight, destroys the stage, sends the orchestra to the nearest sanitorium with nervous breakdowns, frightens even battle-hardened combat veterans, and makes the little children giggle with delight - all at the same time.

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7 years 1 month ago #88 by Valentine

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Sir Lee wrote: On the bodycount...
Eh, that's arguable. Tennyo did kill a lot of people during her Christmas story. Nobody really counted how many, just "lots." Same for Jade in the Syndicate base.

Also, do Voodoo Wolves count? If so, each one of the Wild Bunch racked a significant kill count too.

Fey killed a lot of people in the Syndicate base too.

Don't Drick and Drive.

7 years 1 month ago - 7 years 1 month ago #89 by Phoenix Spiritus

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Yeah, but Jade killed WAY more, and this was after all those she killed in her Cabit form with Billie.

Last Edit: 7 years 1 month ago by Phoenix Spiritus.

7 years 1 month ago #90 by Arcanist Lupus

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Also, didn't Tennyo take out at least one dropship all on her own during Halloween? That's a few kills at least.

"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson

7 years 1 month ago #91 by Kristin Darken

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elrodw wrote: I can't speak for the others, but in her POV, I would probably do inadequately with her unpredictable zany and UV types of reactions (e.g. if she had to confront bloodwolf again). From a different POV? I'd write that. I think we all could.

I only wrote a short combat final with Jade and that alone was challenging. ... it took a bit of 'strategy' and a lot of free associating.

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7 years 1 month ago #92 by Valentine

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elrodw wrote:
Arcanist Lupus wrote: Forgive me if I'm prying, but does the active Cabal know the full details of Jade's potential powerset?

I don't expect you to tell us, of course. I'm just curious about whether you could.

Let me put it this way - we're probably about 95-98% certain of hitting her ultimate powerset on the head if we were to write Jade stories. At that confidence level, I think we know enough to use her as a non-POV character (e.g. Best Days part 3, All the King's Horses, Veni Vidi Cutie) pretty accurately. It's the private Jade that we might not quite get right - her inner demons, what motivates her, what she will or won't do to get her goals, what she fears - that stuff. I can't speak for the others, but in her POV, I would probably do inadequately with her unpredictable zany and UV types of reactions (e.g. if she had to confront bloodwolf again). From a different POV? I'd write that. I think we all could.

What she will or won't do? Well will is pretty easy to come up with. She will do anything that involves herself, and only herself, to become a girl. Note that she has attempted to, or succeeded in,selling her soul multiple times.When it comes to others, Bloodwolf, Peeper, and anyone trying to harm Tennyo are at risk, I think the rest of the population is safe.

elrodw wrote: As an exercise for the students, I wouldn't mind if someone (or ones) were to do an analysis of what I wrote about Jade in the three stories - Best Days part 3, All the Kings Horses, and Veni Vidi Cutie - and do a compare/contrast to Babs' Jade-POV take, so that I could better understand where my characterization of her falls short and where it hits the mark. The more comfortable I am with Jade, the more I can include her as a side-character who occasionally wanders into the spotlight, destroys the stage, sends the orchestra to the nearest sanitorium with nervous breakdowns, frightens even battle-hardened combat veterans, and makes the little children giggle with delight - all at the same time.

Part of the problem with analyzing your use of Jade in those three stories, is that it is "Public Jade." Public Jade is generally much different than Private Jade. Private Jade is focussed on two things, first and foremost becoming a girl and second making sure Tennyo is happy. And to an extent protecting her friends. Jade is most likely to die to protect her friends. Oh wait she's already done that.

Private Jade tried to sell her soul to Sara, did sell her soul to The Destroyer, and may have sold part of it to Sara later, or at least leased it to Sara. Private Jade lets a guy hack her foot off, because it is a step towards her becoming a girl. Private Jade bites a guy's junk off to protect Tennyo.

Public Jade doesn't appear to have a care in the world, until Ayla steals her panties. Public Jade lives outside the box, because inside the box is No Fun Guy, and NFG is Jade's true archnemesis. The line "The only fun is big fun.” sums up Public Jade.

Public Jade is Wondercute; Private Jade is a weaponized Cabbit.
Public Jade is making up silly titles for Fey; Private Jade is animating dead bodies and pretending they're zombies.
Public Jade is tying up Mule and riding him into battle; Private Jade is staking Bloodwolf to a tree and burning a message into him.
Public Jade is giving Peeper a super wedgie: Private Jade is breastfeeding Alhaji to save his life.
Public Jade is the rainbow of colors; Private Jade is much more black and white.
Public Jade is a night at the museum; Private Jade is Ayla's earnest executive assistant.

At least that is how I see it.

Now I think that the recent uses of Jade in the stories was done well, with one minor exception. Executive Assistant Jade should have driven Ayla a little battier (not intentionally but by trying to be the best executive she can be), although that may have happened prior to all of them getting together to go to Europe. The one thing missing is Private Jade, but none of the stories have an appropriate point for a look into Private Jade.

So as long as you (the authors) are willing, I think that including Jade in stories works, even the Wondercute stories where Jade is more of the focus is good. I don't think a straight POV story for Jade would work, unless it was a very short, microscene short, bit.

These are my opinions, and I mean no offense by them.

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7 years 1 month ago #93 by elrodw

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Valentine wrote: Public Jade is a night at the museum; Private Jade is Ayla's earnest executive assistant.

At least that is how I see it.

Now I think that the recent uses of Jade in the stories was done well, with one minor exception. Executive Assistant Jade should have driven Ayla a little battier (not intentionally but by trying to be the best executive she can be), although that may have happened prior to all of them getting together to go to Europe. The one thing missing is Private Jade, but none of the stories have an appropriate point for a look into Private Jade.

So as long as you (the authors) are willing, I think that including Jade in stories works, even the Wondercute stories where Jade is more of the focus is good. I don't think a straight POV story for Jade would work, unless it was a very short, microscene short, bit.

These are my opinions, and I mean no offense by them.

I can't see any reason that anyone could take offense by the opinion you gave, which is, IMHO, very nicely done and well-reasoned. And as an author, I appreciate your taking the time to respond. Thank you.

Yeah, it would have been more Private Jade with Ayla, but it wasn't an Ayla POV story. And it's not likely that Addy or Alicia, and maybe not even Kayda, would see Private Jade. But Public Jade was a lot of fun to write.

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7 years 1 month ago #94 by annachie

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Public Jade is a lot Dianne. Shoulder angels for example

Private Jade is a lot more serious.

It's been what, around 8 or 10 years since anybody heard from Babs?

7 years 1 month ago #95 by jmhyp

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Valentine wrote: Private Jade is focussed on two things, first and foremost becoming a girl and second making sure Tennyo is happy.

I would reverse those two things. If Tennyo were to tell Jade to stop trying to become a girl. Jade would do that. Now, Billie would rip off her own head before saying those words. But based on how I read the old stories, Tennyo is more important than Jade to Jade.

7 years 1 month ago #96 by Arcanist Lupus

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Maybe. That's one of those hypotheticals that really needs to stay hypothetical. You might be right, that Jade would stop trying to be a girl. But if she did, I don't really seeing her living out the month. I don't think she would go actively suicidal, but I think that she'd either become too depressed to eat, sleep, or interact with anybody or she'd become self-destructively intense, and get herself killed in some spectacular fashion that probably wipes out half the eastern seaboard.

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7 years 1 month ago #97 by jmhyp

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That's entirely possible. And why Billie would never give such a command. But that doesn't mean the order isn't as I said.

7 years 1 month ago #98 by Malady

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^ *Wonders about an Illusionist making a fake Billie to control Jade with...*

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7 years 1 month ago #99 by Sir Lee

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Jade is mystically linked to Billie through a demon mark. Although she might not be intellectually aware of it, she is emotionally aware of the link, and would probably feel something wrong with any such attempt.

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7 years 1 month ago #100 by Valentine

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Malady wrote: ^ *Wonders about an Illusionist making a fake Billie to control Jade with...*

If I remember correctly, with the link they share, Jade would see through an illusion of Billie faster than Aquerna.

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7 years 1 month ago #101 by null0trooper

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Is it ever specified what color UV band Jade wears on her non-pacifist days?

Black armband with red letters: Fight Club, hair-trigger tempers, bullies with a history of violent attacks(?)

or,
White band lettered in black: "The poor schleps that were always just getting sucked into fights wound up with a white band lettered in black." ( For some reason, I see this as including "designated targets" like Carmilla, and folks known to have killed in self-defense or under a ROE. )

Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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7 years 1 month ago #102 by annachie

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Knowing Jade, both at once.

Or perhaps pastels.

7 years 1 month ago #103 by Arcanist Lupus

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Red, black, and white, with red against white like the venomous snake.

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7 years 1 month ago #104 by polarone

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She'd have Bunny make her one that changed throughout the day.

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6 years 11 months ago #105 by Malady

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I wonder if Jade's powers are related to Tsukumogami, the Japanese idea that 100-year old objects spontaneously animate...

In whateleyacademy.net/index.php/stories/315-christmas-elves ... There's that dagger...

Is it >100 years old? Perhaps Jade got psychometric wity it because of both age and magic, instead of just age?

... So, is Spinner good against magic due to the special anathme for its blade? Even if it was, we haven't seen Jade fight magical threats after this, have we?

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6 years 11 months ago #106 by Sir Lee

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The original Spinner is no more, melted into slag by an RPG-7. The current Spinner is just a piece of metal that she got from a junkyard and shaped to her needs.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 11 months ago #107 by NJM1564

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You mean Whateley recycling bins? So much good stuff there for a talented scrounger.

6 years 11 months ago #108 by Phoenix Spiritus

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Sir Lee wrote: The original Spinner is no more, melted into slag by an RPG-7. The current Spinner is just a piece of metal that she got from a junkyard and shaped to her needs.

Actually, this is the original "Spinner". When she went up against Syndicate goons with RPGs, her"spinner" was the knife she pulled from her heart. She made her current spinner when she got back to Whateley.

6 years 11 months ago #109 by NJM1564

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What would happen if she tried to possess Yukinojo? And why isn't there a wiki entry for it?

6 years 11 months ago #110 by Valentine

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NJM1564 wrote: You mean Whateley recycling bins? So much good stuff there for a talented scrounger.

Talented indestructible uncutable scrounger.

Remember that they regularly throw nanowire and other very sharp stuff into those bins.

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6 years 11 months ago #111 by Sir Lee

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Phoenix Spiritus wrote:
Sir Lee wrote: The original Spinner is no more, melted into slag by an RPG-7. The current Spinner is just a piece of metal that she got from a junkyard and shaped to her needs.

Actually, this is the original "Spinner". When she went up against Syndicate goons with RPGs, her"spinner" was the knife she pulled from her heart. She made her current spinner when she got back to Whateley.

Uh... that was my point? The first, original Spinner was something that Jade improvised with Hekate's athame and a bunch of junk, in the Syndicate base. That was melted into slag and is no more. After coming back to Whateley, she made the new, current Spinner from a piece of metal (I believe it was the hood of a car, cut in the form of a trefoil and sharpened -- but I don't have the exact ref here) she got in the junkyard.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 10 months ago - 6 years 10 months ago #112 by Rose Bunny

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A scary thought occurred to me. Thinking about Jade's big freak out, and when Thuban ended up with the severed ... parts.
They continued to grow. Now we know Jade has Regen 5, so if she cut off enough parts, could she drop them in nutrient baths and grow more selves, and then populate them with Jinn, Jann, etc? I mean she can cast into them, but could they be permanently affixed to these bodies, and in turn, if they were, and became separate individuals... could Jade make more J-team and company? Jett's independence doesn't seem to have cause a -1 to the number of selves Jade can make. Hypothetically, if this were the case, could you produce infinite Jades?

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Last Edit: 6 years 10 months ago by Rose Bunny.

6 years 10 months ago #113 by NJM1564

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Rose Bunny wrote: A scary thought occurred to me. Thinking about Jade's big freak out, and when Thuban ended up with the severed ... parts.
They continued to grow. Now we know Jade has Regen 5, so if she cut off enough parts, could she drop them in nutrient baths and grow more selves, and then populate them with Jinn, Jann, etc? I mean she can cast into them, but could they be permanently affixed to these bodies, and in tern, if they were, and became separate individuals... could Jade make more J-team and company? Jett's independence doesn't seem to have cause a -1 to the number of selves Jade can make. Hypothetically, if this were the case, could you produce infinite Jades?

While I can't actually speak for the authors I think that for the sake of the omniverse this can be considered officially impossible.

6 years 10 months ago #114 by Rose Bunny

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Darn, I want Infinite Jade to be a thing... or a threat.

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6 years 10 months ago #115 by Yolandria

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Infinite Jade is what caused Fullerton....

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6 years 10 months ago #116 by Valentine

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Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

Yolandria wrote: Infinite Jade is what caused Fullerton....

Millions of animated Hello Kitty plushies rampaging through the town.

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6 years 10 months ago #117 by amratner

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Can anyone remind me where Jade is being Giggle Girl?

6 years 10 months ago #118 by Valentine

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amratner wrote: Can anyone remind me where Jade is being Giggle Girl?

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6 years 10 months ago #119 by Rose Bunny

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I was wondering, I don't think I ever saw a backstory on how Jinn "died", they made up the story that she's a ghost, but did Jade ever give her a tragic backstory?

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6 years 10 months ago #120 by Kettlekorn

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I don't recall. The most practical explanation would be the car accident that killed her mom, though.

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6 years 10 months ago #121 by amratner

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I believe Jade claimed Jinn had been killed in an auto accident.

6 years 10 months ago #122 by Anne

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Those who say that Jinn died in an auto accident are correct. IIRC the legend that they decided on was that she died with Jade's mother. Then she returned to essentially be Jade's guardian.

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6 years 10 months ago - 6 years 10 months ago #123 by NJM1564

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Rose Bunny wrote: Darn, I want Infinite Jade to be a thing... or a threat.

A army of Jade bots who's control clusters are connected by micro wormholes could work. A single J team member could control hundreds if not thousands this way.

Could Jade make animations on paper by manipulating droplets of ink? That could be fun. Or she could do one girl puppet shows. Or oven better/worse a one girl band.

Copieing to Bad idea thread now.

Last Edit: 6 years 10 months ago by NJM1564.

6 years 10 months ago #124 by null0trooper

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NJM1564 wrote:
Rose Bunny wrote: Darn, I want Infinite Jade to be a thing... or a threat.

A army of Jade bots who's control clusters are connected by micro wormholes could work. A single J team member could control hundreds if not thousands this way.

Depending on the local topology, that would get past the distance limitation for controlling objects through one team member.

NJM1564 wrote: Could Jade make animations on paper by manipulating droplets of ink? That could be fun. Or she could do one girl puppet shows. Or oven better/worse a one girl band.

She found out that she needed something solid to grab onto when cleaning dishes at Nikki's home. If lint can be used to grab water, manipulating microbeads loaded with ink might work.

Better yet: stop-motion animations using origami figures!

Japanese culture bonus: check,
Cuteness quotient: depends, but could be high,
Engineering geek cred: not bad at all,
and she can stuff microelectronics in some for bug-based bugs.

Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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Discussion Thread

6 years 10 months ago #125 by konzill

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Jade gets back the part of herself that resides inside Sara's personal dimension and thereby gains full access to her powers. Remember that this includes the ability to consume matter and shape-shift like crazy. Considering that that would make her part shoggoth, she might qualify as a class X entity.

6 years 10 months ago #126 by Anne

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Well it seems to me that at the end of Tenyo goes to hell that Jade is told that she's actually a shifter. Shade, Jinn and the rest of the J crew seem to bear this out. As they can assume the shape of any object they 'occupy'. But at one point Sara I believe tells her that she needs to embrace her ability to change shape. Or maybe it's been too long since I read the story.

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6 years 10 months ago #127 by Rose Bunny

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konzill wrote: Jade gets back the part of herself that resides inside Sara's personal dimension and thereby gains full access to her powers. Remember that this includes the ability to consume matter and shape-shift like crazy. Considering that that would make her part shoggoth, she might qualify as a class X entity.

and if that happened, she'd also most likely end up pregnant, as that piece of her was revealed to be.

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6 years 10 months ago #128 by Angeldude

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How could I miss all this discussion of my favourite character?

As for the infinite Jades: I think it's important to bring up the Merry menagerie. It's difficult to compare regen ratings as the wiki doesn't state Petra's rating and hers is divine in origin while Jade's is a gift from the Destroyer. If Jade's regen is capable to creating a complete clone like Circuit Breaker, then there's the soul issue. For Merry, she had Sara split her soul in half as transferred half into the new body. For Generator, this is something she does on an hourly basis and almost certainly could do so herself, though whether it would stick to the new body is still up in the air.

All it should take for Jade to gain full access to her shapeshifting abilities is for her to screw herself. Jet's curse keeping her from the J-Team was stated to be nullified if Jet (as a male) were to screw Jade (as a female), the fact that they're both locked into the opposite states is a minor obstacle.

I do wonder what would be funnier: if Jade were to go wild with Jet's Shoggoth-level shapeshifting, or if it's revealed that between her unaging and her regen, she's actually biologically immortal and shows up in a few hundred years while still looking and acting 11 years old.

Insanity: for when normal just isn't interesting enough.
All ideas free to use. You can probably make better use of them than me.

6 years 10 months ago #129 by Valentine

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konzill wrote: Jade gets back the part of herself that resides inside Sara's personal dimension and thereby gains full access to her powers. Remember that this includes the ability to consume matter and shape-shift like crazy. Considering that that would make her part shoggoth, she might qualify as a class X entity.

Most people already believe she qualifies as a Class X entity, just ask Gunny.

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6 years 10 months ago - 6 years 10 months ago #130 by Malady

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Hey, been thinking about revival mechanics... Could Jade / Shroud get another body, sorta like Jet and sorta like Shelly, if she gets herself cloned and casts herself into that clone? As revival needs a genetically correct body, and the soul that fits... She could be ''revived'' that way... 'Cause she's got the soul any time she wants...

Like, if she was stronger or something, she could have taken over Tansy by capturing her, and adding more casts once she recovers the energy from losing a casting.

It seems that the energy used when casting is because it's tying her casts to herself... Like the links that Absinthe saw... So, Jade could be immortal and infinite if she was willing to take over other people...

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Last Edit: 6 years 10 months ago by Malady.

6 years 10 months ago #131 by Rose Bunny

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Mal, you wouldn't need to clone her, just get a large enough sample, say a hand or foot, put it in a nutrient bath, let it grow. remember that her severed penis and testicles were growing in the jar she gave Thuban.

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6 years 10 months ago #132 by konzill

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Valentine wrote:
konzill wrote: Jade gets back the part of herself that resides inside Sara's personal dimension and thereby gains full access to her powers. Remember that this includes the ability to consume matter and shape-shift like crazy. Considering that that would make her part shoggoth, she might qualify as a class X entity.

Most people already believe she qualifies as a Class X entity, just ask Gunny.

I don't think so. Most people still seem to assume that she is the weak link in Team Kimba. Gunny, of course, is not most people, so he may indeed know enough to be afraid.

Though keep in mind that many of her exploits are not well known in universe. The Security chief may know she nailed Bloodwolf to a tree, but it's not common Knowledge, neither are her two Christmas adventures. Especially the one where she only showed up in Cabbit form. And the events of Tenyo goes to hell, not even Jade knows, unless Jet has told her about them.

6 years 10 months ago #133 by Arcanist Lupus

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She did publicly curbstomp Mule during their Combat Final, though.

"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson

6 years 10 months ago #134 by Valentine

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konzill wrote:
Valentine wrote: Most people already believe she qualifies as a Class X entity, just ask Gunny.

I don't think so. Most people still seem to assume that she is the weak link in Team Kimba. Gunny, of course, is not most people, so he may indeed know enough to be afraid.

Though keep in mind that many of her exploits are not well known in universe. The Security chief may know she nailed Bloodwolf to a tree, but it's not common Knowledge, neither are her two Christmas adventures. Especially the one where she only showed up in Cabbit form. And the events of Tenyo goes to hell, not even Jade knows, unless Jet has told her about them.

You're mistaking power for the ability to cause insanity. While many consider her to be the weak point in Team Kimba (the Grunts, the Outcasts, Star League Jr., and anyone that has faced Wondercute won't), nearly everyone will agree that where Jade goes, insanity follows.

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6 years 10 months ago #135 by NJM1564

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Arcanist Lupus wrote: She did publicly curbstomp Mule during their Combat Final, though.

And as one of the leaders of Wondercute she has to be maintaining a good thread level.

6 years 10 months ago #136 by Angeldude

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Something that I noticed while rereading TGTH recently is just how casual Jet was about checking her appearance with a third eyeball in her hand. Like that isn't weird at all. The best part is that seeing from a 3^rd-person perspective and in multiple directions is something that Jade does all the time.

Insanity: for when normal just isn't interesting enough.
All ideas free to use. You can probably make better use of them than me.

6 years 10 months ago #137 by amratner

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Who did that happen?

6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #138 by Angeldude

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Something has been bothering me about Jade. Let's just look past her insanity, her lies, her demon mark, her curse, her potential immortality, her potential shapeshifting, and her unaging. The very first power she received upon manifesting was the ability to create Jinn, which later grew into the entire J-team with up to 5 (6 if you count Jet) members at a time. Jade (a class 1 entity as all mutants are) somehow has the ability to split her own soul in half, bind half of her soul to arbitrary physical objects, and have her disembodied half-soul act as a class 3 entity. WHAT‽ Nikki and Sara talked about soul powered spells being the "blackest of black magics," and yet this one girl can shatter her own with no ill effects. Do we even know of anyone else who can live with half a soul, let alone a fifth of one? Is there even anyone else who can divide a soul in the first place? The more I think about it, the more it looks just as impossible as Tennyo destroying a soul entirely.

Let's try not to get into the logistics of Jann-sensei where Jade essentially possesses her own body and is in telepathic communication with herself.

And then there's Jinn's interaction with Avatars. In a way, Jade a a whole is an anti-avatar. From what I can tell, most spirits tend to exist separately from the physical reality, but Jinn is tightly bound to it. How can that be the case even though Jinn can be absorbed by an avatar? What other spirits do we know of that can interact with the physical plane like she does?

Not only is Jade's character incredibly complicated, her very own unique ability defies categorization and seems to violate expectations about how mutant powers work. TK, aura vision, and regen are all fairly simple on their own, but her manifested constructs hurt my brain trying to understand them. Either I'm right about being confused, or I'm wrong on all or most of my assumptions, in which case it's confusing enough to the point that it can draw such wildly inaccurate claims.

Insanity: for when normal just isn't interesting enough.
All ideas free to use. You can probably make better use of them than me.

Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Angeldude.

6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #139 by Arcanist Lupus

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Angeldude wrote: Not only is Jade's character incredibly complicated, her very own unique ability defies categorization and seems to violate expectations about how mutant powers work.

Yeah, that's about right.

"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson

Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Arcanist Lupus.

6 years 9 months ago #140 by Jarjaross

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My best guess is that Jade is some kind of reverse Avatar that possesses things instead of the other way around. A soul so big her body (hollow?) can't contain it.

Also her character is fairly consistent through her own stories, with clear development from story to story, it is just outside of her perspective that we get some of the weird characterizations.

6 years 9 months ago #141 by Angeldude

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Checking the epilogue of TGTH, it seems that the J-teams pure spirit was described as "a smoky black ectoplasm that hung in the air like a cloud, boiling with internal energies." She seemed to have trouble shifting before reentering the cloth. Also it has Jet describing herself as eights or tenths, before splitting again, implying that Jade's soul can survive in as many as TWENTY PIECES! That said, Jade and Jet within Sara's hell are the only 2 who can split and it appears as though the amount of energy to sustain Jade's body is much more than to sustain a single Jinn.

in Jade 1, the first time Jinn looked at herself, she described herself as "a mist of silvery sparkles" and that she was transparent to her own vision when other things wouldn't be. The fact that Jinn doesn't see normally makes my think the TGTH description is more "real." I'd like to mention as well that, according to the Wiki, silver corresponds to hatred, though Jinn's lack of true emotions makes me believe that's not where the silvery colour comes from.

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6 years 9 months ago #142 by null0trooper

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Angeldude wrote: Nikki and Sara talked about soul powered spells being the "blackest of black magics," and yet this one girl can shatter her own with no ill effects. Do we even know of anyone else who can live with half a soul, let alone a fifth of one?

Who ever said that it was Jared that fractured his own soul in the first place?

Right now, Nikki's living with a portion of her soul - that which considered itself to still be Aunghadhail, whose soul had indeed been shattered into many pieces that took lifetimes to piece back together - destroyed.

Maybe that only amounts to 1% worth of damage to a soul, but what informs the assumption that a 10% remainder of a soul cannot survive? Are all souls necessarily the same "size"? If only complete, single-souled people can exist, and must for some reason die if split, what does such a theory predict for Kayda's survival?

Angeldude wrote: Is there even anyone else who can divide a soul in the first place?

If one person can do it, it's not reasonable to assume that no one else ever can, only that you've not met them. Obviously, from Fey's point of view, what was done to Aunghadhail and all the other Sidhe Queens was black magic. But who decides that, and what does it say about Imalris' creator?

Angeldude wrote: The more I think about it, the more it looks just as impossible as Tennyo destroying a soul entirely.

If one can consider Fey and Carmilla expert enough to cite regarding soul-based magic in the first place, their opinion that Tennyo definitely could have destroyed Hippolyta's soul should be given some weight.

Angeldude wrote: Let's try not to get into the logistics of Jann-sensei where Jade essentially possesses her own body and is in telepathic communication with herself.

Whereas from Grizzly's POV, that's exactly what all souls do: possess their own body for a period of time. If there's no problem with avatar spirits being in telepathic communication with the soul that owns the body, should there be a problem with a spirit that calls itself "Jann" being in telepathic communication with Jade?

Angeldude wrote: And then there's Jinn's interaction with Avatars. In a way, Jade a a whole is an anti-avatar. From what I can tell, most spirits tend to exist separately from the physical reality, but Jinn is tightly bound to it.

We've literally "seen" Grizzly, Kodiak, Aunghadhail - if in a muted form, Laneth, Tatanka, and others. WOG has it that some other spirits take corporeal forms. Since some can, I'd think that some others can as well, including Jinn.

Angeldude wrote: How can that be the case even though Jinn can be absorbed by an avatar? What other spirits do we know of that can interact with the physical plane like she does?

Aside from the aforementioned spirits, maybe not many, but couldn't that be why Jinn is considered a Class-3 entity like the other known Class-3 entities that can be accommodated by an avatar and can also physically manifest?

Angeldude wrote: Either I'm right about being confused, or I'm wrong on all or most of my assumptions, in which case it's confusing enough to the point that it can draw such wildly inaccurate claims.

If you feel confused, you are confused. I think you're making some incorrect assumptions based on incomplete information, and other available information not being considered, but I cannot honestly say that's inherently a fault of the character.

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6 years 9 months ago #143 by NJM1564

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I've just bin assuming that Jade was from another universe with differing rules than the Watlyverse. Probably a anime universe. And is still under influence of those physics. At least partially.

6 years 9 months ago #144 by null0trooper

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NJM1564 wrote: I've just bin assuming that Jade was from another universe with differing rules than the Watlyverse. Probably a anime universe. And is still under influence of those physics. At least partially.

Wouldn't that explain a thing or twenty!

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6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #145 by Angeldude

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NJM1564 wrote: I've just bin assuming that Jade was from another universe with differing rules than the Watlyverse. Probably a anime universe. And is still under influence of those physics. At least partially.

Well that's one explaination. XD

null0trooper wrote: but I cannot honestly say that's inherently a fault of the character.

I wouldn't say it is. If I did, she wouldn't be my favourite.

And what do those other spirits have in common that they don't share with Jinn? They weren't created by a single mutant for a short time. Nor are they simple mutants themselves.

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Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Angeldude.

6 years 9 months ago #146 by Valentine

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Angeldude wrote: Something has been bothering me about Jade. Let's just look past her insanity, her lies, her demon mark, her curse, her potential immortality, her potential shapeshifting, and her unaging. The very first power she received upon manifesting was the ability to create Jinn, which later grew into the entire J-team with up to 5 (6 if you count Jet) members at a time.

Nope, Jade's first power was her "unaging." Remember that her age is stuck is around 11 or 12. That means that is when she first manifested. Likely during the accident that killed her mother.

Jade (a class 1 entity as all mutants are) somehow has the ability to split her own soul in half, bind half of her soul to arbitrary physical objects, and have her disembodied half-soul act as a class 3 entity. WHAT‽ Nikki and Sara talked about soul powered spells being the "blackest of black magics," and yet this one girl can shatter her own with no ill effects.

Nope, she suffers quite a few effects. She loses energy with casting of a member of the J-Team, until she gets to the point to where she can only just lay around and read. Soul powered spells may be the "blackest of black magics," but Jade isn't using souls to cast spells, nor is she binding souls, nor doing anything to anyone but herself.

Do we even know of anyone else who can live with half a soul, let alone a fifth of one? Is there even anyone else who can divide a soul in the first place? The more I think about it, the more it looks just as impossible as Tennyo destroying a soul entirely.

Aung's soul was split into many pieces. It was not fully reunited, if it is, until Nikki inherited all the pieces.

Let's try not to get into the logistics of Jann-sensei where Jade essentially possesses her own body and is in telepathic communication with herself.

Uh, Jade isn't possessing her own body. If she was then Jann would be in control of the body, not Jade. Skinwalker can possess other bodies.

And then there's Jinn's interaction with Avatars. In a way, Jade a a whole is an anti-avatar. From what I can tell, most spirits tend to exist separately from the physical reality, but Jinn is tightly bound to it. How can that be the case even though Jinn can be absorbed by an avatar? What other spirits do we know of that can interact with the physical plane like she does?

Not sure where you got the idea that spirits exist separately from the real world. The spirits in Whitman were definitely interacting with the real world. Esoteric was reacting with the real world when he saved Jamie and prevented Kayda from leaving. The spirit that interacted with Diamondback and Eldritch in Australia certainly interacted with the real world. As did the one that interacted with Anomaly in Texas. There are a lot of spirits interacting with the real world. Tatanka is also a spirit, and he most definitely interacts with the real world, as does Grizzly and Kodiak. All three can manifest outside their host.

Not only is Jade's character incredibly complicated, her very own unique ability defies categorization and seems to violate expectations about how mutant powers work. TK, aura vision, and regen are all fairly simple on their own, but her manifested constructs hurt my brain trying to understand them. Either I'm right about being confused, or I'm wrong on all or most of my assumptions, in which case it's confusing enough to the point that it can draw such wildly inaccurate claims.

Jade's character is incredibly complicated, but I think you are reading too much into what she does, and assuming that no one else has this power.

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6 years 9 months ago #147 by Anne

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Interesting, perhaps the reason that Jade has such wide ranging powers is that she actually manifested 3 years before she noticed it. I wonder if the astral projection was a selfdefense reaction? Still interesting that she has such low classification scores. Usually early manifestation means an OP mutant. Instead she has a wide range of powers that continues to develop. If no one suggested it to her she really should have gotten some of the magic courses!

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6 years 9 months ago #148 by Rose Bunny

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you want Jade tinkering wth magic... Jade... Magic...

Nikki would have to kill her, in order to save the multi-verse from Magical Girl and Hello Kitty based things.

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6 years 9 months ago #149 by Valentine

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Jinn needs to take the at least the Intro to Magic Course. Not sure if she could collect Essence, but she can see magic, so it would help her understand what she is seeing.

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6 years 9 months ago #150 by NJM1564

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Anne wrote: Usually early manifestation means an OP mutant.

That's actually a myth in the Whatlyverse. There is no evidence to suggest that early manifestation has any benefit other than giving the mutant more time to get handle on and develop there powers.

6 years 9 months ago #151 by Valentine

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NJM1564 wrote:
Anne wrote: Usually early manifestation means an OP mutant.
That's actually a myth in the Whatlyverse. There is no evidence to suggest that early manifestation has any benefit other than giving the mutant more time to get handle on and develop there powers.

Well except for Shifty, Miranda, Ember, Diz and Pahelee. They may not be the most powerful, but they are certainly well above average and are expected to get more powerful.

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6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #152 by Arcanist Lupus

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Valentine wrote: Well except for Shifty, Miranda, Ember, Diz and Pahelee. They may not be the most powerful, but they are certainly well above average and are expected to get more powerful.

Early manifestation also means that they won't be attending Whateley (a high school) unless they have a serious need for the protective environment it provides. Which is why all the young mutants we meet at Whateley tend to be dangerously powerful.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

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Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Arcanist Lupus.

6 years 9 months ago #153 by Malady

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Arcanist Lupus wrote:
Valentine wrote: Well except for Shifty, Miranda, Ember, Diz and Pahelee. They may not be the most powerful, but they are certainly well above average and are expected to get more powerful.

Early manifestation also means that they won't be attending Whateley (a high school) unless they have a serious need for the protective environment it provides. Which is why all the young mutants we meet at Whateley tend to be dangerously powerful.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

Also, for more ss bias than just "strong enough to need Whateley." There was talk at how the Jr Highs are more likely to burnout, or something, for actual survival being important.

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6 years 9 months ago #154 by Anne

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While thinking about Jade, I got to wondering this morning whether or not she froze her age in part because she feels guilty about not being in the car crash that killed her mother...

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6 years 9 months ago #155 by Kristin Darken

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Malady wrote: Also, for more ss bias than just "strong enough to need Whateley." There was talk at how the Jr Highs are more likely to burnout, or something, for actual survival being important.

Look at it this way... even from a body mass perspective, the average junior high student is what... half the mass of a high school student? If their body goes into an accelerated change, there's that much less mass and energy from normal means for the growth and adaptation of evolutionary traits to occur. This means that the process of manifesting is far more likely to tap into mass/energy that is needed to sustain their life force... or to need to draw energy from 'outside' to complete the process. Being 'stronger' in certain power sets means they're more likely to survive the manifestation without idea resources on hand... their power would allow them to adapt in the moment to use other sources of mass/energy to finish the process. Being 'stronger' in other power sets is more likely to outright kill you. Being weak in power sets either means you complete your manifestation without running out of resources... or that you burnout/die for not having enough resources and lack the adaptability to recover.

But it doesn't happen often. The energy necessary to even start manifesting simply doesn't occur pre-puberty, in most cases.

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6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #156 by NJM1564

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Valentine wrote:
NJM1564 wrote:
Anne wrote: Usually early manifestation means an OP mutant.
That's actually a myth in the Whatlyverse. There is no evidence to suggest that early manifestation has any benefit other than giving the mutant more time to get handle on and develop there powers.

Well except for Shifty, Miranda, Ember, Diz and Pahelee. They may not be the most powerful, but they are certainly well above average and are expected to get more powerful.

Vs. The Kimbas, Grunts, Olympions, Outcasts, all of Hawthorne, much of Twain and Whitman.
Only a select few powerhouses are represented in the stories proper.
The trouble magnets.
And that would almost inevitably include almost any of the younger kids who are going to Whateley.

Now late manifestations aka the recycled old guys have bin universally above the average in terms of power. Though who knows if that means anything. It is rather rare.

Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by NJM1564.

6 years 9 months ago #157 by Rose Bunny

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Getting back to Jade, it was mostly a humanitarian admission. "Here's a kid that has no family, no place to go, and a father that would likely kill him if he found him".

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6 years 9 months ago #158 by Sir Lee

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Also, a power set that hadn't been seen before, which makes her interesting to the researchers.

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6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #159 by konzill

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Trying to reconcile Jade's admission to Whateley with that it looks like now is pretty much impossible because the universe has evolved so much since then. To make Jade's story fit what came after you'd really have to rewrite it with substantial changes. For instance, Jade was power tested by the Police rather than the MCO or a super team, and her testing was decidedly non-standard. I don't mean this as a criticism of the author mind you, Babs was writing before most of these things got established

Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by konzill.

6 years 9 months ago #160 by Anne

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konzill wrote: Trying to reconcile Jade's admission to Whateley with that it looks like now is pretty much impossible because the universe has evolved so much since then. To make Jade's story fit what came after you'd really have to rewrite it with substantial changes. For instance, Jade was power tested by the Police rather than the MCO or a super team, and her testing was decidedly non-standard. I don't mean this as a criticism of the author mind you, Babs was writing before most of these things got established

I think you could argue that perhaps at times a local police dept (especially if the state or city had decided that they didn't want the MCO there) could at least do an initial assessment. Of course the MCO would be quick to advertise the fact that they had made horrendous mistakes that cost many lives if anyone the police evaluated ended up doing things that killed people.

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6 years 9 months ago #161 by Jarjaross

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konzill wrote: Trying to reconcile Jade's admission to Whateley with that it looks like now is pretty much impossible because the universe has evolved so much since then. To make Jade's story fit what came after you'd really have to rewrite it with substantial changes. For instance, Jade was power tested by the Police rather than the MCO or a super team, and her testing was decidedly non-standard. I don't mean this as a criticism of the author mind you, Babs was writing before most of these things got established.

Actually given her circumstances Jade's admission is fairly easy to fit into the story. She went to be tested to ensure she really was a mutant so she could qualify for the scholarships she would need to enter Whateley.

If you think about it Jade is a small girl with almost no training and an unusual power. Just the kind of person who would need the protection of Whateley. So they would want to avoid her being "disappeared" by the MCO if at all possible.

Sending her to an old, somewhat debumped, testing facility makes sense. Note I say testing facility. That is where everyone goes for their power ratings pre-Whateley. Most testing facilities are either MCO based or Superhero based but that doesn't mean they all are. Wasn't Sphere tested by a former villain?

The harder part of her origin to reconcile is actually the fact that she is stated to be one of only 2 mutants who live in the city, to the point where there isn't even an MCO office nearby. Excelt later we learn of like 3 others (at Whateley) and 1 major incident in recent history.

Which is impossible if Jades origin is true. In her origin Jade ends up having to research stuff to even find out mutants exist, which would mean a major incident like that couldn't have happened. It would have been all over the news and Jade was almost in middle school, people would have talked about it.

Honestly if everything in Jade's origin were true then mutants would be a relatively new phenomenon, or Topeka has the worst school system possible for learning about recent, very relavent, history.

6 years 9 months ago #162 by Valentine

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Anne wrote:
konzill wrote: Trying to reconcile Jade's admission to Whateley with that it looks like now is pretty much impossible because the universe has evolved so much since then. To make Jade's story fit what came after you'd really have to rewrite it with substantial changes. For instance, Jade was power tested by the Police rather than the MCO or a super team, and her testing was decidedly non-standard. I don't mean this as a criticism of the author mind you, Babs was writing before most of these things got established

I think you could argue that perhaps at times a local police dept (especially if the state or city had decided that they didn't want the MCO there) could at least do an initial assessment. Of course the MCO would be quick to advertise the fact that they had made horrendous mistakes that cost many lives if anyone the police evaluated ended up doing things that killed people.

Her testing was for her acceptance to Whateley, not for any MID. Jade didn't have any big public power use, like Hank, Toni, Billie, Nikki, etc. so Whateley needed to make sure she was a mutant.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

If you read through, that is all for her acceptance to Whateley.

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6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #163 by Phoenix Spiritus

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Jarjaross wrote: The harder part of her origin to reconcile is actually the fact that she is stated to be one of only 2 mutants who live in the city, to the point where there isn't even an MCO office nearby. Excelt later we learn of like 3 others (at Whateley) and 1 major incident in recent history.

Which is impossible if Jades origin is true. In her origin Jade ends up having to research stuff to even find out mutants exist, which would mean a major incident like that couldn't have happened. It would have been all over the news and Jade was almost in middle school, people would have talked about it.

Honestly if everything in Jade's origin were true then mutants would be a relatively new phenomenon, or Topeka has the worst school system possible for learning about recent, very relavent, history.

Always remember the easiest way to pass a lie detector test, tell the lie to someone else so that they believe it is the truth and get them to do the test. Just because they believe it's the truth and lie detector says they are telling the truth, doesn't make what they say true.

In the Whateley Universe to a greater or lesser extent nearly everything told is from the point of view of an 'unreliable' witness. Just because they believe it is true or have been told something is true, does not make it true, nor necessarily what someone else viewing the incident from a different perspective believes is true.

There are so many factions pushing so many agendas and murking so many waters, it very hard to work out what is the truth anymore, and as they say, there is none so blind as those who will not see.

Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Phoenix Spiritus.

6 years 9 months ago #164 by NJM1564

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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooo oooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was a joke! It was only supposed to be a joke! (Breaks down crying.)

This is how it ends.

6 years 9 months ago #165 by Anne

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Jade: Must have!
TK: No!!
Gunny Bardue: NOOOOO!
The Rest of the World: We're DOOMED!!!!

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6 years 9 months ago #166 by NJM1564

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Anne wrote: Jade: Must have!
TK: No!!
Gunny Bardue: NOOOOO!
The Rest of the World: We're DOOMED!!!!

The outcasts grab the tank. And threaten to repaint it unless Wondercute forfeits the next match.

6 years 9 months ago #167 by Anne

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Razorback ends up purple, Diamondback ends up with pink scales, even Eldricht ends up pink tinted.... As for Jericho, he's color coordinated in pink hello kitty gear that he can't get out of.
The borg has nothing on Wonder Cute and Hello Kitty when they work together!

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6 years 9 months ago #168 by NJM1564

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Anne wrote: Razorback ends up purple,

Barny joke? Bin done. By the imp. How about painting him like rainbow sparkle. The new show hasn't bin released in the Whatelyverse, but the original was.

6 years 9 months ago #169 by Rose Bunny

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NJM1564 wrote:
Anne wrote: Razorback ends up purple,

Barny joke? Bin done. By the imp. How about painting him like rainbow sparkle. The new show hasn't bin released in the Whatelyverse, but the original was.

Is that When Rainbow Dash and Twilight Sparkle do the Fusion Dance?

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6 years 9 months ago #170 by NJM1564

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Rose Bunny wrote:
NJM1564 wrote:
Anne wrote: Razorback ends up purple,

Barny joke? Bin done. By the imp. How about painting him like rainbow sparkle. The new show hasn't bin released in the Whatelyverse, but the original was.

Is that When Rainbow Dash and Twilight Sparkle do the Fusion Dance?

Could be. Also explains why my search for reference images brought up such confused answers.
The image I has was white/blue base with a sparkly rainbow pattern down the back of his head and body.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

6 years 9 months ago #171 by Valentine

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Anne wrote: Razorback ends up purple, Diamondback ends up with pink scales, even Eldricht ends up pink tinted.... As for Jericho, he's color coordinated in pink hello kitty gear that he can't get out of.
The borg has nothing on Wonder Cute and Hello Kitty when they work together!

Didn't Jericho get him with purple paint on Parent's Day 2006?

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6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #172 by Angeldude

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I just checked the DSM-5. (Horray for University proxy!)

Antisocial Personality Disorder cannot be diagnosed before age 18. That said, there's still a chance that she qualifies for the younger version, Conduct Disorder.

The criteria is as follows. 3 must must have been met in the past 12 months and 1 in the past 6 months.

Often bullies, threatens, or intimidates others. (maybe?)
Often initiates physical fights. (occasionally)
Has used a weapon that can cause serious physical harm to others (e.g., a bat, brick, broken bottle, knife, gun). (I don't think this applies at Whateley)
Has been physically cruel to people. (yes)
Has been physically cruel to animals. (I don't think so)
Has stolen while confronting a victim (e.g., mugging, purse snatching, extortion, armed robbery). (She did in her origin. Not sure about since then.)
Has forced someone into sexual activity. (Um... Jet did encourage Sara.)
Has deliberately engaged in fire setting with the intention of causing serious damage. (explosives? yes. fire? no.)
Has deliberately destroyed others’ property (other than by fire setting). (I think so)
Has broken into someone else’s house, building, or car. (she broke into a museum in France. Does that count?)
Often lies to obtain goods or favors or to avoid obligations (i.e., “cons” others). (She lies about many things. Not so sure about this one though.)
Has stolen items of nontrivial value without confronting a victim (e.g., shoplifting, but without breaking and entering; forgery). (no)
Often stays out at night despite parental prohibitions, beginning before age 13 years. (don't think so)
Has run away from home overnight at least twice while living in the parental or parental surrogate home, or once without returning for a lengthy period. (wouldn't surprise me if she did, but it would have been unrelated to this.)
Is often truant from school, beginning before age 13 years. (don't think so.)

In conclusion, I believe that Conduct Disorder does not appear to be her diagnosis. Someone can try going back through her stories to solidify my evaluations. I also encourage others to try and find a diagnosis that fits better for her. I haven't checked Borderline Personality Disorder and that could be a potential candidate.

P.S. I really hope I don't get in trouble for copying the diagnostic criteria here.

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Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Angeldude.

6 years 9 months ago #173 by Anne

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Yes Jericho got some purple paint on Razor. This however is more permanent than what Imp used on 'Barney' and if Hello Kitty is annoying then Barney is even more annoying. So then maybe Diamondback ends up yellow and with pink spots? (Baby Bop?) I can see Imp getting with Alyss to put the spykids into unremovable Teletubby outfits... Somehow if Jade, Imp, Belle, Absinthe, and Thorn all joined forces rather than pranking each other the rest of the world would probably surrender within the first hour!

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6 years 9 months ago #174 by Valentine

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Angeldude wrote: I just checked the DSM-5. (Horray for University proxy!)

Antisocial Personality Disorder cannot be diagnosed before age 18. That said, there's still a chance that she qualifies for the younger version, Conduct Disorder.

The criteria is as follows. 3 must must have been met in the past 12 months and 1 in the past 6 months.

Often bullies, threatens, or intimidates others. (maybe?)

Often initiates physical fights. (occasionally)

Has used a weapon that can cause serious physical harm to others (e.g., a bat, brick, broken bottle, knife, gun). (I don't think this applies at Whateley)

Has been physically cruel to people. (yes)

Has been physically cruel to animals. (I don't think so)

Has stolen while confronting a victim (e.g., mugging, purse snatching, extortion, armed robbery). (She did in her origin. Not sure about since then.)

Has forced someone into sexual activity. (Um... Jet did encourage Sara.)

Has deliberately engaged in fire setting with the intention of causing serious damage. (explosives? yes. fire? no.)

Has deliberately destroyed others’ property (other than by fire setting). (I think so)

Has broken into someone else’s house, building, or car. (she broke into a museum in France. Does that count?)

Often lies to obtain goods or favors or to avoid obligations (i.e., “cons” others). (She lies about many things. Not so sure about this one though.)

Has stolen items of nontrivial value without confronting a victim (e.g., shoplifting, but without breaking and entering; forgery). (no)

Often stays out at night despite parental prohibitions, beginning before age 13 years. (don't think so)

Has run away from home overnight at least twice while living in the parental or parental surrogate home, or once without returning for a lengthy period. (wouldn't surprise me if she did, but it would have been unrelated to this.)

Is often truant from school, beginning before age 13 years. (don't think so.)

In conclusion, I believe that Conduct Disorder does not appear to be her diagnosis. Someone can try going back through her stories to solidify my evaluations. I also encourage others to try and find a diagnosis that fits better for her. I haven't checked Borderline Personality Disorder and that could be a potential candidate.

P.S. I really hope I don't get in trouble for copying the diagnostic criteria here.

Does self-defense count for this sort of thing?

Often initiates physical fights. (occasionally) - I don't think we have seen Jade initiate a fight, other than in self-defense or the Sims/Combat final where it is expected.

Has been physically cruel to people. (yes) - Only once, other than self-defense and she had had a very bad day, plus the guy she was cruel to was going to kill and eat her. That might be extenuating circumstances.

Has stolen while confronting a victim (e.g., mugging, purse snatching, extortion, armed robbery). (She did in her origin. Not sure about since then.) - She was the victim there.

Has forced someone into sexual activity. (Um... Jet did encourage Sara.) - She/Jet may have encouraged it, but she didn't force it.

Has deliberately engaged in fire setting with the intention of causing serious damage. (explosives? yes. fire? no.) - The Sims don't count. (unless I missed Jade blowing up someone/thing)

Has broken into someone else’s house, building, or car. (she broke into a museum in France. Does that count?) - Again this was self-defense, and I don't think that counts.

Often lies to obtain goods or favors or to avoid obligations (i.e., “cons” others). (She lies about many things. Not so sure about this one though.) - Mostly she "lies" about her genitalia, and her pranks, but I am fairly certain she hasn't lied to obtain something she didn't earn.

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6 years 9 months ago #175 by Sir Lee

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On the stealing thing: not only I can't recall Jade stealing stuff, but she doesn't like not being able to pay her own way -- witness how creative Ayla has had to be to give her stuff.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 9 months ago #176 by null0trooper

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> Often bullies, threatens, or intimidates others. (maybe?)

- Bullies go for the easiest targets, and then for their biggest vulnerabilities.

- Her antics stop, not escalate, when she recognizes someone's hurting too much to get in on the joke. To be fair, Ayla's over-controlled affect makes it hard to tell how far over the line she's gone with him.

- "Intimidates others" only counts when the person is trying to intimidate them. Jade is simply not intimidating; she is terrifying.

"Then I saw little Tiffany. I'm thinking, y'know, eight-year-old white girl, middle of the ghetto, bunch of monsters, this time of night with quantum physics books? She about to start some shit, Zed. " -- "Men in Black"

> Often initiates physical fights. (occasionally)

Once, on a person who had imprisoned part of her. Everyone should be allowed one bad week.
Supervised training and challenge matches are NOT what the authors of the DSM are referring to.

> Has used a weapon that can cause serious physical harm to others (e.g., a bat, brick, broken bottle, knife, gun). (I don't think this applies at Whateley)

It very much applies to Whateley. Many students assume that they can shoot someone and the victim will heal up in minutes. A prepared mage or devisor might have shielding that will stop a bullet. Otherwise, it's a miracle more kids haven't died or been permanently disabled.

Bear in mind that while this is written poorly enough that some would include sport shooting, hunting, cooking (knives!), several martial arts, all soldiers and police, that's not what the criteria are about.

> Has been physically cruel to people. (yes)

As others have said, Bloodwolf and his crew got off lightly compared to what they planned to do to her (premeditated murder and desecration of a corpse).

> Has been physically cruel to animals. (I don't think so)

Hasn't been shown, no.

> Has stolen while confronting a victim (e.g., mugging, purse snatching, extortion, armed robbery). (She did in her origin. Not sure about since then.)

So, not in the last 12 months.

> Has forced someone into sexual activity. (Um... Jet did encourage Sara.)

Sara, formerly Michael Waite, while having the appearance of a minor was an adult. Jet, while having the appearance of an adult, was a minor.

> Has deliberately engaged in fire setting with the intention of causing serious damage. (explosives? yes. fire? no.)
> Has deliberately destroyed others’ property (other than by fire setting). (I think so)

Outside of training and self-defense. The previous question was about rape, these two are about arson and vandalism.

> Has broken into someone else’s house, building, or car. (she broke into a museum in France. Does that count?)

No. This is about domiciles and private property.

> Often lies to obtain goods or favors or to avoid obligations (i.e., “cons” others). (She lies about many things. Not so sure about this one though.)

"To obtain goods or favors, or to avoid obligations"

This is a question about material gain, i.e., Fraud.

> Has stolen items of nontrivial value without confronting a victim (e.g., shoplifting, but without breaking and entering; forgery). (no)

> Often stays out at night despite parental prohibitions, beginning before age 13 years. (don't think so)
> Has run away from home overnight at least twice while living in the parental or parental surrogate home, or once without returning for a lengthy period. (wouldn't surprise me if she did, but it would have been unrelated to this.)
> Is often truant from school, beginning before age 13 years. (don't think so.)

These absolutely would not apply in a domestic/child abuse situation, such as Jared lived. Seriously. Would you blame a kid for missing school after his father punched him out again, because questions from the teachers would only make things worse at home?

This is why armchair psychoanalysis is such a Bad Idea. There is a checklist, but to go down that list without understanding that none of these things have any application outside their context is to do your intended target wrong. What the terms mean to a trained professional , or even an experienced non-professional, is not what you are reading into them.

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6 years 9 months ago - 6 years 9 months ago #177 by Angeldude

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Just remember that my conclusion was "No." I just wanted people to double check my analysis, which you have done. There might be something at work, but I don't think it's that. There is much more information in the DSM to diagnose someone, that was just the easiest to copy into a forum post.

In AP Psychology in high school, one of the assignments was to write an actual diagnostic report on a fictional character. Most people take the easy route and give Sheldon Cooper Asperger's Syndrome. Had I known about Whateley at the time, I probably would have chosen Jade.
(Fun fact: it was during this very assignment when my friend introduced me to TVTropes.)

Insanity: for when normal just isn't interesting enough.
All ideas free to use. You can probably make better use of them than me.

Last Edit: 6 years 9 months ago by Angeldude. Reason: TVTropes

6 years 9 months ago #178 by null0trooper

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Angeldude wrote: In AP Psychology in high school, one of the assignments was to write an actual diagnostic report on a fictional character. Most people take the easy route and give Sheldon Cooper Asperger's Syndrome. Had I known about Whateley at the time, I probably would have chosen Jade.

Outside of her severe problems with her gender and identity, and her determination to have some sort of family, what's interesting about Jade is that many of her reactions to the extreme situations have been relatively sane. That includes Wondercute: the team is mostly girls with low-end powers that leave them targets for bullying by students and staff. They've redirected much of the attention toward their "wacky antics" and made themselves less attractive targets for casual bullying. There's just no props for picking on little girls still into unicorns. ( It's much like what Jericho is doing with his clothing. )

I can almost picture Bloodwolf and Buster sharing a bucket of popcorn while watching newbies head into the baited trap. It's a free show, and the blood isn't theirs.

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6 years 9 months ago #179 by Yolandria

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I can almost picture Bloodwolf and Buster sharing a bucket of popcorn while watching newbies head into the baited trap. It's a free show, and the blood isn't theirs.

That is sooo true. Just like the old guys at the muppet theatre. Making fun of the fresh crop of bullies while laughing their asses off. And rubbing old wounds while watching on from the side lines.

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6 years 9 months ago #180 by Anne

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Yep it is just so much fun to watch the bullies discover that they've bitten off far too much to chew. Indeed they discover that what they've bitten into is somewhat like having a tiger by the tail. The thing is that this tiger can most definitely take chunks out of them and will do so while laughing maniacally.

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6 years 9 months ago #181 by NJM1564

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null0trooper wrote: > Has been physically cruel to animals. (I don't think so)

Hasn't been shown, no.

There is a deviant art pic of her saying that "She doesn't like it when other people are cruel to animals." But this was when she was marking blood wolf while he was staked to a tree. And isn't cannon.
Though how she treats Danny might count.

6 years 9 months ago #182 by Sir Lee

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NJM1564 wrote: There is a deviant art pic of her saying that "She doesn't like it when other people are cruel to animals." But this was when she was marking blood wolf while he was staked to a tree. And isn't cannon.
Though how she treats Danny might count.

The picture may not be canon, but the portrayed events actually happened in a canon story:

Revenge of the Alphas wrote: “I wouldn’t do this, normally,” she continued. “But you killed that bobcat. And I think you hurt it before you killed it. I don’t like it when other people hurt the animals! If you do it again, I’ll be very upset!”

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

6 years 8 months ago #183 by null0trooper

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Sir Lee wrote:
NJM1564 wrote: There is a deviant art pic of her saying that "She doesn't like it when other people are cruel to animals." But this was when she was marking blood wolf while he was staked to a tree. And isn't cannon.
Though how she treats Danny might count.

The picture may not be canon, but the portrayed events actually happened in a canon story

The fridge horror comes from reading "I don’t like it when other people hurt the animals!" ("Don't hurt them!")
as "I don’t like it when other people hurt the animals!" ("That's MY job!")

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6 years 8 months ago #184 by Angeldude

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null0trooper wrote:
Sir Lee wrote:
NJM1564 wrote: There is a deviant art pic of her saying that "She doesn't like it when other people are cruel to animals." But this was when she was marking blood wolf while he was staked to a tree. And isn't cannon.
Though how she treats Danny might count.

The picture may not be canon, but the portrayed events actually happened in a canon story

The fridge horror comes from reading "I don’t like it when other people hurt the animals!" ("Don't hurt them!")
as "I don’t like it when other people hurt the animals!" ("That's MY job!")

I just reread that part. Bloodwolf legitimately believes that she's a named demon who wanted the sacrifice to be in her name. XD
Unlike Imp who was labeled a demon for her appearance, Jade was labeled a demon for her actions, words, and relation with Jinn juxtaposed with her appearance.

Insanity: for when normal just isn't interesting enough.
All ideas free to use. You can probably make better use of them than me.

6 years 8 months ago #185 by lighttech

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NJM1564 wrote:
Rose Bunny wrote:
NJM1564 wrote:
Anne wrote: Razorback ends up purple,

Barny joke? Bin done. By the imp. How about painting him like rainbow sparkle. The new show hasn't bin released in the Whatelyverse, but the original was.

Is that When Rainbow Dash and Twilight Sparkle do the Fusion Dance?

Could be. Also explains why my search for reference images brought up such confused answers.
The image I has was white/blue base with a sparkly rainbow pattern down the back of his head and body.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ] [ Click to hide ]

LOL that actually looks like the paint on my car!
www.viavisolutions.com/en-us/osp/product...lutions/spectraflair

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6 years 8 months ago #186 by Mister D

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Another point of view that occurred to me as i was reading the recent posts on this thread, is that Jade started out with Regen of the Spirit, rather than the Regen of the Body.

This would make sense, in the way that her ability to generate the J-Team is increasing.

It would also make sense from the way that Absinthe is able to perceive the connections between Jade and her "devises".

Side-note: Jade would definitely need to take both Intro to Magic 101, and, the Intro to Psychic Arts, to get a larger picture of how these skills operate.

Have any of the teachers been able to perceive the connections, and, would they have pointed this out to her Course Guidance Counsellor, in order for the CGC to help her to learn more effectively?

Other side-note: What stories are there that would cover the unperceived actions of the faculty, the admin, and, the security sides of Whateley?

Vignettes that spring to mind,
- Loophole's & Jericho's problems with the power supply for the armour, and, the way that those had to be quickly contained;
- The constant background mentions of the security + Reverend Englund having to deal with Class X threats in the local area;
- Eldritch and Hartford's conversations about the DFA's, and how the Admin dept was approaching that through the longer-term avenue's within the legal system;
- Fey describing the Knots of Magic, that she was dealing with in the lunch hall;

This was also lampshaded in Jade's conversations with Fey's mother during the Christmas Elves Story, about trying to have lunch, when there's all kinds of wyrdness going on in the background.

I always find it fascinating to see how the different author's describe the background plot-threads from the PoV of the "Unreliable Narrator's" who are only seeing the tip of the iceberg, in the incidents that they actually see, without the context that we get as from being able to get the bigger picture by reading the full range of Canon stories.

There was one piece by Mozart, A Sonata for Violin and Piano, where he only wrote the violin part. The piano part was created as being implicit, like you are only hearing one side of a telephone conversation, and having to work out the rest from context.

Delicious and chewy ideas.

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6 years 8 months ago #187 by Valentine

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I believe those "knots of magic" that Fey was seeing was an untatooed Eldritch wandering around mucking with the ley lines.

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6 years 8 months ago #188 by Mister D

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Valentine wrote: I believe those "knots of magic" that Fey was seeing was an untatooed Eldritch wandering around mucking with the ley lines.

Some of them, yes.

But if that sort of thing can crop up "naturally", then it would be relatively normal to have this pattern of behaviour.

Whateley being a sort of hot-house where lots of these things are concentrated in one area, rather than being spread out all over the planet.

It would also be interesting to look at what has been happening similarly, in other places where you don't have the concentration of background experience in dealing with this sort of thing.

This would also make for another strand of "Origin" stories, which would lead to characters being sent to Whateley. The "You're not a mutant, but we're sending you there anyway, as they're the only ones who know how to deal with you" type of plot-thread. Relevant example being Chou.

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6 years 8 months ago #189 by DanZilla

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Mister D wrote: I always find it fascinating to see how the different author's describe the background plot-threads from the PoV of the "Unreliable Narrator's" who are only seeing the tip of the iceberg, in the incidents that they actually see, without the context that we get as from being able to get the bigger picture by reading the full range of Canon stories.

There's been talk by one of the authors about working on a Rashomon-style story at some point... I'd really like to see that.

6 years 8 months ago #190 by Anne

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crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Babs_Yerunkle this seems to eventually link to all the Jade stories. Good reading if you haven't read them all.

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6 years 4 weeks ago #191 by Greatdingo

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I've been reading a few stories, instead of doing what I should be doing of course, and it seems to me that Jade is occasionally exhibiting bully-ish behavior.

From what I've read, Danny is only in wondercute very reluctantly, yet Jade doesn't seem to realize this. Or she doesn't care because she wants the "cute kitty" in her group?

Alyss doesn't want to join wondercute, and has made that clear. Yet, Jade apparently won't take no for an answer?

And, sometimes, it kinda seems like she does what she does, playing pranks and such, because she looks like a kid and therefore knows she can and will get away with it without much trouble. This last part may just be because I hate pranks...

I'm not saying she IS a bully, just that she sometimes exhibit that behavior, at least a bit.

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6 years 4 weeks ago #192 by Anne

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Greatdingo wrote: I've been reading a few stories, instead of doing what I should be doing of course, and it seems to me that Jade is occasionally exhibiting bully-ish behavior.

From what I've read, Danny is only in wondercute very reluctantly, yet Jade doesn't seem to realize this. Or she doesn't care because she wants the "cute kitty" in her group?

Alyss doesn't want to join wondercute, and has made that clear. Yet, Jade apparently won't take no for an answer?

And, sometimes, it kinda seems like she does what she does, playing pranks and such, because she looks like a kid and therefore knows she can and will get away with it without much trouble. This last part may just be because I hate pranks...

I'm not saying she IS a bully, just that she sometimes exhibit that behavior, at least a bit.

I don't think your analysis is incorrect. Jade has become very much a person who pushes to get her own way. Granted her personality was formed a great deal by Tansy. So, she probably needs an anchor which she does not have right now.

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6 years 4 weeks ago #193 by Valentine

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Greatdingo wrote: I've been reading a few stories, instead of doing what I should be doing of course, and it seems to me that Jade is occasionally exhibiting bully-ish behavior.

From what I've read, Danny is only in wondercute very reluctantly, yet Jade doesn't seem to realize this. Or she doesn't care because she wants the "cute kitty" in her group?

Alyss doesn't want to join wondercute, and has made that clear. Yet, Jade apparently won't take no for an answer?

And, sometimes, it kinda seems like she does what she does, playing pranks and such, because she looks like a kid and therefore knows she can and will get away with it without much trouble. This last part may just be because I hate pranks...

I'm not saying she IS a bully, just that she sometimes exhibit that behavior, at least a bit.

Once Jade realized that she was accepted as a girl, she became a bully/get her way person. Remember that the only person to actually have any control over her is Billie, she will go along with the rest if she wants to, but if Billie says something she listens.

Wondercute, Jade is pushing both Danny and Alyss into joining Wondercute, because they're both cute. Alyss is a natural with her apparent youth and Lolita dresses, but I think that Alyss has also realized that this is a great way to get girl immersion. She will learn more about being a little girl from Wondercute faster, than any other way.

Danny on the other hand seems to be joining both from pressure and as a self-defense mechanism. He knows he's going to bullied, but no one but Freshmen will mess with Wondercute. No one is that dumb. Danny also knows that at some point Winihape is likely to maim or kill one of the bullies if he loses control, so stopping the bullying is important.

Pranks, remember that with Jade, the only fun is the big fun. Her pranks are rarely intentionally mean, but she doesn't quite have a good feel for her audience. Pranking Phase in the cafeteria, great fun, pranking Phase in the classroom, not a good idea. Pranks with Belle, Thorn, and Posies fun, Peeper in the cafeteria a bit malicious. Delivering Jobe a PB&J hilarious, chasing Belfatso with plastic stinging hornets, funny but a bit malicious.

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5 years 8 months ago #194 by Erianaiel

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I must politely disagree with some of the assertions that are being made about Jade being an out of control prankster and a bully.

If we (as we should) restrict ourselves to the canon stories she does some pranking but the writing goes out of its way to say that compared to the real pranksters like Belle she doesn't really do anything like that.
What is her big prank? Animating Tenyo's Cabbit and give everybody a good time. She got a bit carried away herself, but never got even close to hurting anybody. Just frustrating them a tiny little bit with the sillyness of it.
What she did when avatared by Tansy was her intentionally tormenting her captor to force her to let her go. I may have missed another Jade prank in her official pov stories, but I think that's about it.

The second biggest source of Jade stories are the Ayla ones. The most famous prank there of course were the shoulder angels. which started out as a really funny joke pulled on Ayla that she carried a bit too far in the team tactics class. After which she dropped it. She and Bunny also pulled it on Peeper (but let's face it at that point in Canon stories Peeper and his sidekick just existed to be the punch(line) of a joke. That the whole shoulder angel thing spiraled out of control is hardly Jade's fault and certainly not something she encouraged.
The radioactive condor girl thing was meant to be a noodle incident and only much later got explained, and was funny mostly because of how Gunny overreacted to it (and because it was just so ridiculously sounding).
There was also the little incident where Jade charged a jinn into Ayla's clothes, and Ayla retaliated by stealing Jade's panties off her in the middle of the cafetaria.
Oh, and there was that teasing of Jobe during the Ayla and the Mad Scientist story, but that was really mild (she teased his robotic door guards about beign a robot and gave him a really lackluster lunch while Ayla and Jadis got something edible).
I think that's about all the pranks in the Ayla stories?

After that we get pretty far from pov Jade. Wondercute are delightfully whacky stories and it makes a point of explaining that their power is not inherent but in the way they are completely unpredictable (the first sim deliberately draws a link to the dragonslayers and their insane tactics).

What I haven't seen is Jade doing any bullying. She's occasionally inconsiderate or acts without thinking things quite through. Of course she also is a 14 year old with the brain of an 11 year old. Neither are famed for their considered approach to things...

The POV Jade as I read her is obsessed to the point of mania with becoming a girl in body as well as mind, She's creative and mischievous and has the typical teenager's problems with pulling back before her ideas run away from her and with thinking before she acts.
And she is scared a lot of the time. For good and not so good reasons.

5 years 8 months ago #195 by Angeldude

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Erianaiel wrote: The POV Jade as I read her is obsessed to the point of mania with becoming a girl in body as well as mind,

There is only one thing that Jade values more than girlhood: Billie. Internally, she's pretty much just focused on those 2 things. Everything else comes after.

Insanity: for when normal just isn't interesting enough.
All ideas free to use. You can probably make better use of them than me.

5 years 7 months ago #196 by RoseBlack

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The reason people are drawing the bully line is because of wondecute they do "punish" the enemies of cuteness granted alot of those are egregious asshats who had it coming but not all. Also the way they treat Danny like he is a pet or something because he is "so cute" and he isn't really given a choice about hanging with them. Later he comes to accept it because of the level of protection they can provide but at first it is very much peer pressure bullying that makes him to along.

Granted they would likely be horrified if someone pointed out how their actions can be perceived. The thing is they are kids so they don't really thing about.

Also is Jade' s reaction to something she can blow stuff way out of proportion with a "prank" because as someone who isn't a preform or even just a rational person she fails to see when enough is enough or if something goes to far unless A Billie calls her on it/prevents her from doing it. Or B it goes to far ala shoulder angels and a teacher ends up involved.

Plus Jade can be absolutely terrifying if she wants. Look at bloodwolf and his crew

5 years 7 months ago #197 by Anne

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I think the thing that tips Jade into the category of bully for me is how Danny is treated by Wondercute. The reason that this pushes Jade into the category of bully is that in a lot of ways Wondercute is Jade.
Now to Jade's credit she cannot imagine that anyone wouldn't want to be a part of Wondercute if they are 'cute'. She doesn't pursue Bloodwolf except to remind him that she knows some of his activities and that she is watching him... And he only guesses at the possibilities that Jade has in her arsenal as far as the ability to be the ultimate spy!!
As far as dangerous, I believe the last time we saw a story from Jade's perspective she was rated somewhere at the top of the underdogs as a threat. But no one who has had an encounter would rate her much below about 50! She is a regen 7 due to her connection with the Starstalker...!! That alone ought to raise her threat level. Well another combat final will probably change that rating...

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5 years 7 months ago #198 by null0trooper

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Anne wrote: She is a regen 7 due to her connection with the Starstalker...!! That alone ought to raise her threat level. Well another combat final will probably change that rating...

That would be Tennyo with the 7+. Jade's a Regen-5 biohazard.

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5 years 7 months ago #199 by Sir Lee

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Jade is technically a Regen-5, although due to her ability to self-perform TK microsurgery very quickly, it may at times appear that she is a higher level regen.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

5 years 6 months ago #200 by Cryptic

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Jade is a bad influence: I caught myself calling someone a poopyhead.

I am a caffeine heathen; I prefer the waters of the mountain over the juice of the bean. Keep the Dews coming and no one will be hurt.

5 years 6 months ago #201 by Sir Lee

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Don't feel bad. I recently saw, I think, Stephen Colbert using the word "poopyhead" on live TV.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

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